[Savage Species] Size change

[Cyraneth]

I know this has been discussed once (or twice) before, but SS has made it sort of relevant again:

When a character using a monster class permanently changes size, what happens with weapon proficiencies (and foci, for that matter)? If a fire giant has Weapon Focus (greatsword) and then becomes Large, does the focus transfer to Huge greatsword or does it remain (Large) greatsword?

IMC we simply let the player choose, just to keep things simple, but what is the general consensus?

- Cyraneth

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think there is no general consensus.

IMO you keep proficiencies in weapons with the same relative size as before: so your proficiency for "greatsword" is still for a weapon one size category larger than you. It really only matters for special feats like weapon focus, or for characters that have bought the proficiency with a feat, since a greatsword will become a longsword if you get bigger.

You might introduce a spell that permanently changes the size of weapons, so that they can keep their old favorite and still use the proficiencies.

 

[Cyraneth]

I was thinking about taking Weapon Focus in the greatsword, and when she becomes Large, I could switch to greatsword two-weapon fighting... I know, it imposes a -4 penalty, but the fire giant's racial Strength bonus more than makes up for it.

- Cyraneth

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I was thinking about taking Weapon Focus in the greatsword, and when she becomes Large, I could switch to greatsword two-weapon fighting... I know, it imposes a -4 penalty, but the fire giant's racial Strength bonus more than makes up for it.

- Cyraneth

As long as you're medium-size, you have a weapon that you have to hold in both hands. After that, you only need one hand. It's a different weapon for you.

 

[Cyraneth]

As long as you're medium-size, you have a weapon that you have to hold in both hands. After that, you only need one hand. It's a different weapon for you.

True... although you couldn't really have used that argument if it had been the bastard sword and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (instead of greatsword and size change) we'd discussed...

A besides, isn't it her that changes, and not the weapon?

- Cyraneth

 

[Kae'Yoss]

A besides, isn't it her that changes, and not the weapon?

It depends on your point of view: At first, you're medium size, the greatsword large, so it's a two handed weapon for you. Then, you grow to be large, the greatsword's still large, so it's only a one-handed weapon for you, the same as the longsword was before (and indeed, a large longsword has the same stats).

A character doesn't care whether the weapon is large or medium-size, but whether the weapon is to large, two-handed, one-handed, or light for him.

 

[Emongnome]

The rules are such that you're medium-sized at one level, large-sized the next. In reality (as much reality as a game can offer), you've been growing slowly the whole time, so it's not like you're 3 feet taller overnight. The point is that while you still needed to hold the greatsword in two hands until you hit that level, it has become easier and easier to use, you just gained the capability to wield it one-handed perhaps over time, as you trained yourself to do so. So no, you shouldn't need to take any new feat for changing size, the weapon didn't change, after all.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The fact is that by the rules you can't gain proficiency with a weapon except with feats (or class features giving you the same effect as those feats). A cleric who uses a war axe for 10 levels, but who doesn't invest a feat for the proficiency will still have penalties for the weapon. It's the same in our excample: you use a greatsword for half of the time, but then your size has increased sufficiently so that the weapon is a longsword for you. There might be a time where the weapon is between greatsword and longsword for you, but one moment it has "become to small" for you to use as a greatsword (and for simplicity's sake, that's when you change your size with a level-up). Without spending the proficiency feat for longsword, you won't be able to use the longsword. And since you're now large, you'll need a large longsword (which is the same as a "normal" greatsword)

 

[Eldorian]

As for the Bastard sword example.. remember the full blade is the bastard sword for large creatures, and is explained thusly in Arms and eq. As for my take, you're not profecient in a sword of a certain size, but in a sword in a certain relative size. If I spent all my time training to use a longsword and then I grew to be a large creature, I'd need to start using greatswords, because a long sword would feel like a puny weapon in my hands.

Eldorian Antar