Save or die spells/effects

[Victim]

I think putting a save to negate on Harm would do more to damage the spell than the current changes. If you can stop it with a save, then it's just a save or die that requires some other dinky hit to get the die part - inferior to the lower level Slay Living. Sure, it's just damage now, but the way it does damage is different from most other spells.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I think we've drifted into edition wars LiShenron. I wasn't talking about the differences between 3.0 or 3.5. When I wrote 3.5, I guess I should have written 3.# because I was talking about the beneficial effects of Third Edition.

 

[Cutty Sark]

Over the last couple of years "save or 0 hp" has become my favorite house rule. I remember at least a few people on the boards saying they played with it, too. Is there any chance we could see a change to something like that?

 

[Delta]

Should the beholder still have a death ray? Sure. Is the new disintegrate (where you take 20d6 if you save) still a fearful spell for players? Yep. You could make it 40d6, save for half and people would freak.

For me, save-or-die is an elegant and simple game mechanic (in fact, as simple as could be). It simulates a bad guy have a spell "and I'm going to kill you!" with it, which is important. The times when I've told a player they must save-or-die are among the most memorable, intense moments in gaming. Rolling wads of dice are inelegant, time-consuming, and harder for a player to determine their odds of survival, and so less motivating and memorable.

Apparently my friends play differently than some. As an example, we also play poker (no limit texas hold-em) and we also get told that those poker games, for no actual money, are too intense for some people to handle. I've got one friend who goes all clammy when he has to go all-in for a win-or-be-eliminated situation. Some acquaintances would prefer to play limit hold-em (no such save-or-lose possibility), but I wouldn't want to play any other way. As professionals attest, the no-limit game is called the "king of poker" and I can see why.

As another analog, most poker tournaments are no limit texas hold 'em. I've also discovered that I prefer the tournament-style game of D&D.

 

[Fishbone]

Not giving it up for stud games, huh?
I hate Texas Hold 'Em, mostly because I'm worse at it than just about every other form of poker imaginable.
Possession poker razz, now thats where its at!
I think save or dies are a bit anticlimactic. If you've got great saves the enemy pretty much wastes a turn. If its 50/50 you're basically staking your character's life on a coin flip. Ewww.
Even if getting rezzed doesn't hurt that much it still stings. Past that it might as well not even have a save. Those are the 3 ways I've seen save or dies happen and I don't really care for it. I prefer damage and incapaciation.

 

[Li Shenron]

Over the last couple of years "save or 0 hp" has become my favorite house rule. I remember at least a few people on the boards saying they played with it, too. Is there any chance we could see a change to something like that?

That could be a nice idea (maybe "save or -1" is even better), if the gaming group's main problem with save-or-die spells is the fear of the players about dying without a second chance. This house rules IMO greatly favors the PCs, because once unconscious they can still count on the allies to save them from death.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Hmmm... save-or-die sets to -1 hp? Little idea: It should be -(spell level) hp.

It finds wonderful: Slay Living reduces to -5, Finger of Death to -7, Implosion/Wail of the Banshee to -9 - meaning the more powerful the spell, the less time you have to save your comrades.

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm... save-or-die sets to -1 hp? Little idea: It should be -(spell level) hp.

It finds wonderful: Slay Living reduces to -5, Finger of Death to -7, Implosion/Wail of the Banshee to -9 - meaning the more powerful the spell, the less time you have to save your comrades.

That or something similar is around here a pretty common houserule in group that don't like Resurrect spells.

Nice ideas and nice opinions here. Looks like a majority expects some changes.

I still do like the flavor of the big bang spells, yet the new disintegrate with damage looks better to me. Things like sleep, paralyse and petrification though should IMHO all be Dex (or perhaps Str) damage. Ice effects perhaps too.

I see that this would make the system more complicated though... and simplicity is one of D&Ds big winning points.

 

[Psion]

Hmmm... save-or-die sets to -1 hp? Little idea: It should be -(spell level) hp.

It finds wonderful: Slay Living reduces to -5, Finger of Death to -7, Implosion/Wail of the Banshee to -9 - meaning the more powerful the spell, the less time you have to save your comrades.

I like it.

 

[BryonD]

I also think that is a good idea.

Funny how it is similar to the old HARM that needed to be fixed. But seems a good idea in this case. Of course, there is a difference....