Save or Die!

[MarauderX]

That's why there is ressurection, although it is a tough path and I make the characters jump through a bunch of hoops to get the character back. I hate it when players like the way their character was developing and then lose her to a retarded rule but it happens sometimes and you can't ignore it, so I let the player a 'temporary' character to role-play until the PCs get the original character back. It got one player into a conflict about which character he wanted to keep: the dead cleric or the new monk that wouldn't take any penalties due to death. Eventually he took the cleric back because he liked the characters ties that he had made with the townspeople (he opened his own church there).
I roll in the open, which some DMs don't do in order to prevent a TPK, but if the party is in over their head they should learn to run. My strongest hint is making the players make a will check due to fear of the overwealming confrontation they face.

 

[EricNoah]

Save or Die doesn't usually make for a very fun game, in my experience. Players should be allowed to use their characters' skills/abilities to survive, or their own cleverness. Pure random luck determining such a big/important thing is no more fun that playing a slot machine.

 

[DDK]

An easy fix for this is save or -1 hp. It gets the character unconcious and out of the fight, even open to a CDG, but gives them a chance to be rescued by another character.

Heh, I don't mind this rule, I don't mind this rule at all... the character would also have a chance to stabilize. Nice. It's no garauntee, but at least it's a chance. And that's what bugs me most about this situation, it's that there is essentially no chance but the one roll. That, to me, isn't gaming, it's dice rolling and system mechanics. Where's the story in, "He rolled a 1 and died..."?

I'm not saying that risk should be eliminated from the game, more that it's unfair to pin a character's existance on one roll of the die. It's also no fun, IMO. Where was the fight? Where was the strategy? Where was his will to live? It's just Wham! Thankye Mam! Not even a Bam! in between.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Actualy, hard as it may be to comprehend I guess, some people *don't* think there is anything fun in having a lot of hard work and development obliterated by a random act.

Thank you for being more civil then I was going to be...

SD

 

[DDK]

Save or Die doesn't usually make for a very fun game, in my experience. Players should be allowed to use their characters' skills/abilities to survive, or their own cleverness. Pure random luck determining such a big/important thing is no more fun that playing a slot machine.

Yes! Exactly what I was getting at except in a much more succint, orderly and coherent manner. Why is it that I can never get a point across in less than twelve paragraphs?

 

[DDK]

I hate it when players like the way their character was developing and then lose her to a retarded rule but it happens sometimes and you can't ignore it, so I let the player a 'temporary' character to role-play until the PCs get the original character back. It got one player into a conflict about which character he wanted to keep: the dead cleric or the new monk that wouldn't take any penalties due to death.

One thing I've done on occassion and have been meaning to do in my games for the last two years (I developed a more precise idea of how it would occur) but never seem to remember to do so, is to roleplay the characters journey through the afterlife.

If you have access to the Manual of the Planes, I suggest looking through it for inspiration. I highly recommend this approach as it can also allow the character to earn some XP so the hit from the raising isn't so harsh.

 

[Jeph]

I hate it when players like the way their character was developing and then lose her to a retarded rule but it happens sometimes and you can't ignore it, so I let the player a 'temporary' character to role-play until the PCs get the original character back.

You can't ignore it? Sure you can! As a GM, I fudge this kind of thing all the time. In fact, the only time I let a save-or-die get through is if the player was just plain being stupid. The way I see it, what's the point of following the rules, if they're stupid? (here we're defining stupid as 'not fun'.)

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Someone above posted "Where's the Story in He Rolled A One And Died?"

You're forgetting that this isn't always the PC's story. Sometimes, you're reading through the story of "How The BBEG Got His Reputation".

Anyway, if you TPK the party (or close to it) then the next time they meet him, they'll really hate him .

 

[clark411]

They do not boost my enjoyment of the game.

That said, I can very easily see how a wizard or sorc needs disintegration, hold monster (+cdg's usually equate to save or die), and the other "you're out of the fight instantly" spells to survive.. with their HD, given an average rolling history a wizard will have about 24 hp give or take at level 10... for that character, being hit by pretty much anything Large or better will equate to "Your opponent attacks and you die." Being mauled / swallowed / etc on round one is just as enjoyable as rolling a 4 on a save vs a Destruction spell.

So I can see how they are somewhat of a necessity even if they aren't fun. Being on the recieving end, no matter how I can justify the utility or unavoidable necessity of it, isn't joyful for me. Hopefully they've come up with some work-arounds for this in 3.5 if they are altering the spells... if not I feel bad for the finger-wigglers in my group.

 

[mmu1]

I don't really like the "Save or die" mechanic, and I like the fact that for many class and spell combinations, it's not really "Save or die" but "Roll a 20 or die" even less. The high power level of D&D magic tends to give high-level spellcasters nearly arbitrary power of life and death over people with bad Will or Fort saves.

That being said, there's a time and place for everything, and it's called published adventures. I'm runing CotSQ right now, and I'm really looking forward to see what I can do to the party with the kid gloves off.