Saving Throw issue with DM

[monboesen]

Bottom Line: The Op's DM interpreted the rules incorrectly. Period.

But some of agree on the house rule he then uses, as it is vastly better than the official one

 

[Nail]

And had he declared it a house rule, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

Your DM is wrong, plain and simple. Sounds like he has control issues.

Hey now, the DM may be wrong about a rule or mistaken, but that doesn't mean he has control issues.
There may be any number of reasons the DM is saying this is a rule:
-Maybe he's been playing under a certain DM so long that this rule is given in his way of thinking; he may not even know it's not the standard rule;
-Maybe he's made it a house rule, which may or may not have been made clear in the beginning of the campaign; having GMed and at the beginning of a campaign given out a House Rules sheet, I can tell you that it's no big surprise after you make a ruling that ticks off a player he accuses you of making changes to the rules and you have to pick up the very same sheet you handed him and point out the rule that was given to him at the start of the campaign;
-Maybe the DM is simply mistaken;

The point is there may be any number of reasons and to call the DM a control freak or say that he has control issues is unwarranted, given the information we have.

I'm sick of players who, if they aren't allowed to do one thing they want in game (no, i won't let you be a fiendish dire lycanthropic chaotic evil assimar with dragonblood), start yelling that the DM is a control freak. I'm more apt to give DMs the beneft of the doubt that munchkin players.

 

[Nail]

Hey now, the DM may be wrong about a rule or mistaken, but that doesn't mean he has control issues.

True enough. My bad.

 

[Hawken]

Nail hit it on the head (pun intended)

If the DM had posted ahead of time, "hey, here's my house rules for the game," I wouldn't even have started this discussion.

However, he didn't and now this is stuff is coming up again and again.

Now, he's saying I did my hit points wrong. He did house rule this, no rolling for hp, just giving us a value for our hd. 10hp per d12 hd, 8hp per d10 hd, etc. My character has d12 hd for all his classes except fighter. He is saying that I have too many hp because the feral template changes all my hd to d10.

Now this is something I've never encountered but can templates give you less hp by worsening your hd? I've never really encountered a situation where templates give you worse hd/hp and logically if they can give you better hd/hp, the opposite should apply, but this is the first time I've seen it. For some reason, I was thinking since I had better hd than what the template offered, that the hd would not be reduced. I am not arguing my DM on this point, I'm just throwing this out there because I've never heard of this happening myself. Any comments?

 

[Christian]

I suggest you start using the Whirling Frenzy variant instead of standard Rage. And once the DM notices, point to the optional rule in UA. Maybe he'll eventually provide an actual list of optional rules that are and aren't being applied ... And if he doesn't, then hey! You get Whirling Frenzy!

 

[3d6]

The feral template only changes racial Hit Dice and has no effect on class Hit Dice, per Savage Species, pg. 112.

As far as I know, the only templates that change class Hit Dice are templates that change you into an undead creature.

 

[maggot]

I suggest you start using the Whirling Frenzy variant instead of standard Rage. And once the DM notices, point to the optional rule in UA. Maybe he'll eventually provide an actual list of optional rules that are and aren't being applied ... And if he doesn't, then hey! You get Whirling Frenzy!

I guess that is one option.

 

[Kafkonia]

Now this is something I've never encountered but can templates give you less hp by worsening your hd? I've never really encountered a situation where templates give you worse hd/hp and logically if they can give you better hd/hp, the opposite should apply, but this is the first time I've seen it. For some reason, I was thinking since I had better hd than what the template offered, that the hd would not be reduced. I am not arguing my DM on this point, I'm just throwing this out there because I've never heard of this happening myself. Any comments?

As said elsewhere, the only WotC templates (AFAIK) that change your class HD are some undead ones, which bumps you up to d12 because you lose your CON score (cf. Necropolitan in Libris Mortis.) Otherwise, they refer to your "racial HD", which, if you're a dwarf (or any other 1HD creature), don't exist -- they get subsumed by your first class level.

And most third party templates that do change class HD will specify whether it will lower your HD or not.

 

[pallandrome]

I guess that is one option.

One that will likely cause more problems than solutions :\

It's usually better policy to be forthright about your problems with your GM. If they are reasonable, then they'll usually work with you. If they are not reasonable, then you should probably just leave the game. Being a dick will likely avail you nothing but a crappy reputation.