Saving throws improve?

Mostly static DCs and saves also mean that no monster will ever be doomed to be useless. Goblins will be doomed once the PCs get more hp and fireballs start flying at them.
But IF a goblin can get close enough for an attack, he can still hurt you. And if there's enough of them, they may actually kill you. So instead of being able to deal with 6 goblins, you later can deal with 30 goblins. But if there are 50 or 60 of them, crazy enough to charge into certain death to take you down, even higher level PCs might get really threatened.

On the other hand, this also means that high level monsters can be hurt by relatively low level characters. So if you can get a large enough army of villagers with spears and set up a good ambush, you can defeat much more powerful monsters if you can find a way to prevent them from using their most powerful magical attacks. Arrows and spears won't just bounce off without effect. Even if it's just 2 or 3 hp with every hit, eventually even a dragon will be brought down.
In the same way, Damage Reduction only reduces damage, but can never negate it, even if your dagger rolls a measly 3 damage. And regeneration can be temporarily shut down completely, so all damage you deal help getting the monster closer to death.

It's no longer about "Can it be done or not?", but about "Can it be done before we are all dead?". And that's a great basis for creative planning and outside the box solutions.
 

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An interesting note: in 1st/2nd editions, people got better and better at resisting spells and stuff. This was good (if more than occasionally aggravating for spell casters), because the stuff you were trying to resist got scarier and scarier (except for the never-to-be-sufficiently-accursed-low-level-Hold-Person). 3e changed the picture entirely, with saves steadily getting harder at higher levels.

I'd like a return to the previous setup.

I agree, players should become more resilient as they become more powerful.

Spell DC's obviously increase, so why wouldn't saves? We'd eventually reach a point where it would be impossible to save. I don't think that's a good design idea.
 


They do? I didnt see anything that suggested this (at least in a character growth/non-equipment sense).

Happy to be pointed at what does this, I really want to understand the probability mechanics of this area properly.

It's based off your ability score, so as long as ability scores can increase, so can spell DCs. I'm not sure of the ability score increase rate, I heard it was every 3rd level in some article, but I don't see that in the playtest.

It's not really that far off honestly I think. The scaling is slow, which I like, no including spell level like in previous editions, or your own level.
 


It's based off your ability score, so as long as ability scores can increase, so can spell DCs. I'm not sure of the ability score increase rate, I heard it was every 3rd level in some article, but I don't see that in the playtest.

It's not really that far off honestly I think. The scaling is slow, which I like, no including spell level like in previous editions, or your own level.

But by that logic, arent saves also increasing, since save are based on stats?
 

On another note. From what I have read so far in this area Im pretty happy. Two thumbs up for restricting scaling against probability mathematics in general.

Now, if I had something which "improved" a saving throw outside of stat growth, I would FAR prefer to see that handballed into the advantage/disadvantage systems.

For instance

Ring Of Clarity
When you save against charm and dominate based effects you are considered to have advantage.
 

I'm looking forward to finding this out as well. I love the idea of using ability bonuses for save, and I like the idea of a flatter progression so I'm not trying to add up 1d20+37 or some other nonsense on a regular basis, but right now the math seems really flat to me.

My tough fighter who has a strength of 16 only has a 15% better chance to push that heavy rock then the 4 foot tall halfing thief? I think the game would be a little better served with just a bit more differentiation between PCs when it comes to their saves and abilities.

Has anyone else noticed this from the playtest? Right now the randomness of the D20 pretty much trumps any supposed skill or special ability a PC may have, and while I like the idea of advantage because it encourages description and RP, it's pretty much necessary for the PCs to look like they are succeeding via anything but dumb luck.
 

On another note. From what I have read so far in this area Im pretty happy. Two thumbs up for restricting scaling against probability mathematics in general.

Now, if I had something which "improved" a saving throw outside of stat growth, I would FAR prefer to see that handballed into the advantage/disadvantage systems.

For instance

Ring Of Clarity
When you save against charm and dominate based effects you are considered to have advantage.

Good point.

I remember reading somewhere that stat growth for PC was capped at 20.
 


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