SCAG Thread

[Warmaster Horus]

I'm not sure what this thread has degenerated to, but there are some obvious takeaways from it.

1) SCAG's adoption into AL has been handled horribly, bottom line. Whether it was intended to be used or not by the powers that be, or whether it was communicated clearly that it wouldn't or might or could be used by the powers that be, or whether people got told one thing or incorrectly made assumptions or whatever--it simply hasn't been handled well.

...

What? The fact that content from SCAG will be available at all in Season III is pretty cool. From what I've heard WOTC provides no previews for books to AL staff to review so they have only just gotten a look. The book itself doesn't even 'officially' release for a few more days and we already know that something about its' inclusion is coming soon. Finally, a handful of disgruntled people on the Interwebs does not equate to "handled horribly". Lots of us are pleased as punch.

 

[Inconnunom]

What? The fact that content from SCAG will be available at all in Season III is pretty cool. From what I've heard WOTC provides no previews for books to AL staff to review so they have only just gotten a look. The book itself doesn't even 'officially' release for a few more days and we already know that something about its' inclusion is coming soon. Finally, a handful of disgruntled people on the Interwebs does not equate to "handled horribly". Lots of us are pleased as punch.

That's great you think it wasn't poorly handled, but your own response underscores the issues. WotC SHOULD have given books to AL staff to prepare for the release. Even 2 or 3 books is infinitesimally more than 0. The 'official' response should have been when the book was released WPN stores. What is an advantage of having an extra 11 days if the products you sell have no practical purpose. That's like buying a car but not being allowed to drive it for 11 days (especially when you can get it 40% off at a different store if you wait). AL shouldn't have to keep deleting conversations off of facebook because people are just finding out the book isn't legal yet. I've talked to store owners that have already stated anyone who has the book can use any options (for last saturday and tonight) in the book until AL "gets their act together" and releases a proper statement. (Their words not mine). Some players had shelved their characters so that they could enjoy the new material but are getting frustrated at the lack on communication.

In my opinion, the situation hasn't been handled well. I'm not saying it's anyone person's fault, but nobody is making it any easier either.

 

[warfteiner]

As with previous statements:

The Adventurers League admins will be making a statement soon. We are refraining from posting public documentation about the legality of rules and content elements from the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide until the book is available to more than just the premiere stores. There are a lot of moving pieces on this, and thank you for your patience.

---------------------
This is not a punishment for premiere stores, nor does it represent a lack of material delivery. There are a ton of moving pieces in this (admins, Wizards staffers, playtesting, theorycrafting, etc) and we're aligning to make sure that we have a simple, common statement when we hit the proverbial big red button marked "POST NOW!"

 

[kalani]

Hyperbole. Utter nonsense and hyperbole.

You do realize that AL is a minority in the Dnd5E community? The book retains practical purpose for AL DMs and players (to familiarize themselves with the setting), for non-AL players, for book reviewers, for those who have impulse-control issues and "must have it ASAP", and for AL-optimizers who wish to start tinkering with the new mechanics ahead of the official announcement (whatever it may entail). The fact that the book is not yet legal for AL might result in a small % of players choosing not to purchase the book until it is AL-legal (maybe 1/20 players at a guess).

At my store alone, there were no less than three AL players who purchased the book during last evenings Expeditions session (out of 8 players), one of which usually buys his books on Amazon. I expect another 10-20 books will be purchased tonight during Encounters (out of ~60 players). While I cannot speak to the total number of sales since Friday, I did briefly mention this oft-mentioned argument to the staff in an effort to gauge whether it's lack of inclusion in AL was affecting their sales..... They looked at me as if I had grown a third eye, and clearly indicated that SCAG sales have been steady, as expected

 

[Ainulindalion]

1. Products are released early at WotC Core+ stores.
2. Core+ stores are stores with higher numbers of in-store participants in various WotC programs.
3. AL is a primarily in store program, designed as marketing (that WotC dumps $1000s into for no trackable return) to sell products.
4. New product is not usable in AL when Core+ stores get it.

I don't see how that isn't seen as a system failure. Is it crippling? No. Is it super-illogical? Very much yes. Does it decrease faith in the program overall? In my case, yes.

Now, my understanding is:

1. WotC produces new product.
2. WotC releases new product.
3. WotC then bothers to ask the people they've put in charge of a large marketing arm (the Admins) how they should market (include in AL) the product.
4. AL players get upset because Admins aren't providing logical service.
5. Admins get defensive because they aren't actually paid WotC employees with early access to material.
6. Admins get blamed because they actually communicate with people and WotC is seen as a monolithic organization that will simply absorb complaints and ignore you.
7. Admins try to get a handle on the situation by using the following form responses "This would be better addressed to WotC Customer Service" and "Your thoughts/comments/opinions have been noted. They will be given due consideration." These statements come across, unintentionally, as "F--- off, as despite being the designated representatives, we're not interested." and "We took your ideas and put them in the trash can where they belong." People become pissed off more.
8. Eventually guidance is released on a subject of interest to the participants in the marketing arm.
9. Guidance feels unnecessarily restrictive for the purposes of 'future proofing'. Many participants do not understand the problems that results in the 'future proofing' either because they did not participate in a program which had issues that the future proofing is designed to overcome, didn't observe the supposed problem in one of those programs that they did participate in, can't understand the problem on a conceptual level, think the problem wasn't a problem, or various other reasons.
10. Complaints eventually reduce until a new product is released and the process repeats.


I personally would add the following steps, based on my own experiences:

5.5 Admins try to defend selves with 'We're not WotC employees' when they are, which pisses off people more.
6.5 Admins continue to fail to understand that volunteer, unpaid employees are still employees and representatives of the company. This failure may be WotC's fault, depending on contractual nature of the relationship between the Admins and WotC. People get more pissed off.
7.5 Admins note that they could release guidance sooner if people weren't always complaining about how long it was taking, forcing them to respond and increasing their workload. People offer to assist with workload. Admins explain it isn't a heavy workload and they don't need help. People become confused and lose program investment.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

That's great you think it wasn't poorly handled, but your own response underscores the issues. WotC SHOULD have given books to AL staff...

I'm glad you think so. But the fact is that WOTC has their reasons for not giving books to AL staff before release. You may think they SHOULD, but they don't and that's how they want to run it. When you have your own huge, popular RPG brand to run, you can make those decisions, too. Until then you're entitled to your opinion. And have a little patience so that the many (nearly all uncompensated) people who devote their time to providing you an enjoyable past time can check out this cool resource and put it in play.

 

[kalani]

We are not employees. We are volunteers. Someone who volunteers at the Animal shelter is not an employee either, nor is someone who volunteers at a fundraising event. Despite public opinion to the contrary, there is a major legal distinction between an employee and a volunteer, the least of which includes employee rights.

As far as the admin's being dismissive, or throwing idea's into the "trash" is concerned: I beg to differ. When it is something that we (the campaign staff) have any measure of control over, it is discussed. More often than not, this results in some action being taken on our part, such as the following examples:

• Ruling Change (Crafting Healing Potions): Crafting healing potions was illegal in season 1. This was changed in season 2 due to player feedback.
• Ruling Change (Summoned Creatures): Originally, characters were limited to the allowed rules (PHB/MM Appendix A). This resulted in numerous spells having zero options. In response to player feedback, this ruling was amended to allow the DM Basic Rules (or MM if necessary), if no legal targets were found in the Allowed Rules. Yes, there are a lot of people unhappy about how conservative the amended ruling is, however it is less restrictive than the original rule (as written in the ALPG)
• Rise of Tiamat (Random Treasure & Experience): In response to player feedback about how unplayable this adventure was in AL when played by the book, the admin's released a FAQ allowing DMs to roll random consumable items and mundane treasure, as well as providing guidance for XP allocation.
• Out of the Abyss (Random Magic Items): In response to player feedback, the campaign staff sifted through the book looking for each instance of a random magic item, and issued a FAQ detailing the list of items found in each encounter. Were it not for this list, each instance of a random magic item would be disallowed (as per the ALPG and the Rise of Tiamat FAQ), and the players would earn nothing.

On the other hand, if it is something we have little or no control over, we ask players to give their feedback to customer service. At the same time, we (collectively) forward the feedback up the chain to those who can enact change. Unfortunately, as has been stated by the admins on numerous occasions: Feedback and suggestions provided to WotC by the admin's only count as a single source of feedback (regardless of how many people have given the same feedback). It is primarily for this reason that the admins suggest people to contact customer service directly, as each contact with CS counts as a separate source of feedback - and as such, has a collectively greater chance of resulting in change.

 

[skerritthegreen]

I'm not sure I agree with all of those, but Ainulindalion since you have the timeline and responsibilities down, I would ask how should the Admins fix the perceived problem, noting of course that we are still not employees and have no power to get product early, change release dates or make announcements on things we don't control?

 

[Ainulindalion]

Do you do things to promote a product of a company? Yes.
Does that company provide guidance on your behavior? Yes.
Does that company have expectations on how you perform your product promotion? Yes.
Can that company insist on your removal (and get it) if you don't do things the way they like? Yes.

Guess what, you're an employee and representative.

Do you get paid? No.

Sounds like you needed a better representative in negotiations.

Does WotC get to profit from your participation and activities on your behalf and have no legal responsibility to provide for you in the event that your activities on their behalf result in some harm? Yes.

Sounds like you needed a better representative in negotiations.

You're still an employee. Welcome to corporate America.

 

[skerritthegreen]

Thanks for that helpful response. We shall endeavor to be more corporate in the responses we give you. Your comments have been noted and will be passed along.