D&D 5E Selecting the Simplest Sorcerer Solution

[Corwin]

Metamagic Initiate-- basically the metamagic version of Martial Adept. It gives a player 2 sorcery points and one metamagic option that any spellcaster can select and use for their spells, and which a sorcerer can add to their total SP and metamagic count. Basically just like a Battlemaster Fighter can add the superiority die and two maneuvers from Martial Adept to their count were they to take it. I haven't had anyone take the feat yet, but I'm curious how it plays (and whether the two extra SP and that third metamagic option helps the sorcerers feel like they have more oomph.)

I think I like it. Given that you have two sorcerers, I'd highly recommend you encourage one of them to use it, and have the other take something else, so you can see the contrast in action. You have a great opportunity to playtest your idea given your situation.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think I like it. Given that you have two sorcerers, I'd highly recommend you encourage one of them to use it, and have the other take something else, so you can see the contrast in action. You have a great opportunity to playtest your idea given your situation.

Heh... you'd think that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, like I said... they barely use the metamagic and sorcery points they do have, let alone playtest the extra ones they could take with the feat. LOL.

 

[Fritzo]

It's mainly the "not enough sorcery points" problem that I'm curious about. With the Converting A Spell Slot to Sorcery Points bonus action rule in place, lack of sorcery points has never appeared to me to be much of a problem?

Sorcery points are also often used for a sorcerers abilities. I believe the only exception to this is the storm sorcerer? Consider at 6th level a sorcerer would only get to quicken a spell 3 times per day before they have to start breaking into their spell slots to start using their class abilities.

I should also add that for my two Curse of Strahd campaigns I'm running right now, I created/edited a whole bunch of new feats for the game... one of which is Metamagic Initiate-- basically the metamagic version of Martial Adept. It gives a player 2 sorcery points and one metamagic option that any spellcaster can select and use for their spells, and which a sorcerer can add to their total SP and metamagic count. Basically just like a Battlemaster Fighter can add the superiority die and two maneuvers from Martial Adept to their count were they to take it. I haven't had anyone take the feat yet, but I'm curious how it plays (and whether the two extra SP and that third metamagic option helps the sorcerers feel like they have more oomph.)

I can't see many players wanting to choose it. You have to remember that sorcery points refresh on a long rest. it's not worth a feat to cast quickened spell once per long rest. Maybe try bumping the sorcery points up to five.

 

[Corwin]

Consider at 6th level a sorcerer would only get to quicken a spell 3 times per day before they have to start breaking into their spell slots to start using their class abilities.

I can't help but get the impression you mean, "have to," like its not intended to work that way.

I can't see many players wanting to choose it. You have to remember that sorcery points refresh on a long rest. it's not worth a feat to cast quickened spell once per long rest.

And here I can't help but get the impression you think quickening a spell isn't really that cool. Or impactful. Having seen it in practice at the table over the few years we've been playing 5e, I can say with certainty it is capable of being a game changer. A tide turner.

Maybe try bumping the sorcery points up to five.

Where your initial instinct is to see 2 as too few, I'd guess 5 to be probably a bit much. But who knows what the magic number might be? That's what playtesting it is for. Maybe it ends up being 3 or 4?

 

[Fritzo]

I can't help but get the impression you mean, "have to," like its not intended to work that way.

Well to be honest mate I don't know what they intended and neither do you. The op laid out he thought sorcery points were lacking a little. Defcon also was curious why people felt that way and I was just trying to provide some insight. Considering by the sounds of it his two sorcerers sound like they're not playing to the classes abilities, it would be understandable that he is less likely to see a problem with the resource.

And here I can't help but get the impression you think quickening a spell isn't really that cool. Or impactful. Having seen it in practice at the table over the few years we've been playing 5e, I can say with certainty it is capable of being a game changer. A tide turner.

Oh no you misunderstand me, I do think its cool. But considering the designers have in their mind that a typical adventuring day takes 6 to 8 encounters. I think the idea of using your coolest ability 3 times over that many encounters is lacking. Especially when using that ability is competing with one other metamagic at that level, and a class ability.

To put things in perspective a Monk would have 6 ki points(short rest recharge) and stunning strike costs 1 ki point. Or Paladins get their always on aura of protection.

Where your initial instinct is to see 2 as too few, I'd guess 5 to be probably a bit much. But who knows what the magic number might be? That's what playtesting it is for. Maybe it ends up being 3 or 4?

I agree he should playtest it. I was just suggesting a way to make it more attractive to his players. I think 4 would be a great number, better than 5 even.

 

[Wepwawet]

5 sorcery points with a feat, when a Sorcerer needs to be 5th level to have that? Definitely no.

First, increase the sorcery points for the class, if they actually need it.

To be honest I didn't really feel like I had too few when I played one, and the times I used them they had a huge impact on the game.
It would be great to have a few more though, but like, 1 or 2 more than they normally get.

Edit: I think the original suggested version is a great feat, 2 points + 1 metamagic is potent for anyone, even sorcerers. Anything more than that would be overpowered

 

[zaratan]

I would like that the cost to convert spellslots in sorcerer point was the same of SP in spell slots. But ok, I can understand. Auto get the distant, extended and subtle spell would be a nice adding. No one choose those because they are very situations, this could add some options with the same limited resources.

 

[Aldarc]

I should also add that for my two Curse of Strahd campaigns I'm running right now, I created/edited a whole bunch of new feats for the game... one of which is Metamagic Initiate-- basically the metamagic version of Martial Adept. It gives a player 2 sorcery points and one metamagic option that any spellcaster can select and use for their spells, and which a sorcerer can add to their total SP and metamagic count. Basically just like a Battlemaster Fighter can add the superiority die and two maneuvers from Martial Adept to their count were they to take it. I haven't had anyone take the feat yet, but I'm curious how it plays (and whether the two extra SP and that third metamagic option helps the sorcerers feel like they have more oomph.)

Though I like the basic idea, I am definitely worried that this is effectively a "feat tax" for the sorcerer. The fighter has ASIs/feats to spare, but a sorcerer does not have the same abundance.

 

[Corwin]

Oh no you misunderstand me, I do think its cool. But considering the designers have in their mind that a typical adventuring day takes 6 to 8 encounters. I think the idea of using your coolest ability 3 times over that many encounters is lacking.

And yet a similarly leveled fighter typically only has Action Surge three times a day as well, given the same encounter recommendations you just cited.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Though I like the basic idea, I am definitely worried that this is effectively a "feat tax" for the sorcerer. The fighter has ASIs/feats to spare, but a sorcerer does not have the same abundance.

Well, if we're talking universally for the game as a whole, sure you could make that supposition. If Wizards has determined they miscalculated on the number of metamagics and sorcery points they should have given the Sorcerer, so they create a feat to solve the problem as it's the easiest/fastest way to do so (and can be ignored by any DM who doesn't feel there actually is a problem. The Weapon Expertise situation all over again.)

But for my personal game it's not a tax, because none of my sorcerer players have felt constrained by rules as they've stood thus far... so this feat merely gives them more of what they're already happy with, plus it gives all the other spellcasting classes the opportunity to get metamagic for their own spells. Thus far no one has taken it, so I have no idea whether it's a "good" or "worthwhile" feat or not... but a lot of times it's just the knowledge that it *is* available that makes players happy.