D&D 5E Selecting the Simplest Sorcerer Solution

[Corwin]

That is correct but Action Surge is not competing with other Fighter abilities, Metamagic does. I've already stated that once before, and it's a core point of my argument. It shouldn't be omitted when discussing if the Sorcerer has enough points.

That was not the point being addressed. It helps if you stick to one point at a time, rather than bounce around changing the location of the goalposts to suit an agenda.

 

[Corwin]

If people are of the opinion that they should be able to throw out a meta-magic-powered spell slot every round in combat...

Found their problem!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I just want to say, Sword of Spirit, that I like your design principles.

+Cha Mod to spells known would be fine by me, as DM. I used to give out domain spells (draconic sorcerers off a list of fear- and rulership-themed spells; wild magic rolled randomly off the sorcerer table) until the revised Storm Sorcerer made it feel too nonstandard (no longer a fulcrum point tweak, you might say), so I'm very open to the idea of extra spells known.

 

[SkidAce]

... or pay extra sorcery points to use the other six that aren't the ones I "know". Like, I have two primary metamagics as usual whose costs are normal, but then I can use any of the other metamagics as needed, but whose cost is 1 (or 2) points higher than normal since they aren't my primary ones. That way if I find myself in a situation where Careful Spell would be very useful, I'd be able to get my hands on it for that one fireball I cast at ground zero for example....

This really feels like it has potential. Neat idea that I must look at closer.

 

[Corwin]

Has anyone else taken a moment to consider what the sorcerer's 20th-level capstone ability says about the individual value of a sorcery point? Just thinking out loud.

 

[Wepwawet]

wild magic rolled randomly off the sorcerer table

That's a brilliant idea!!! 1 random spell per spell level you can cast to Wild Sorcerers.
(I wouldn't include extra spells for Dragon sorcerers, though, their abilities are quite good already)

I'll definitely include that in my games from now on. Best of it, spells that get little love will get some use, and players will certainly come up with creative uses for them.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

That's a brilliant idea!!! 1 random spell per spell level you can cast to Wild Sorcerers.
(I wouldn't include extra spells for Dragon sorcerers, though, their abilities are quite good already)

I'll definitely include that in my games from now on. Best of it, spells that get little love will get some use, and players will certainly come up with creative uses for them.

I gave out two random spells per level (1-5) to match the UA Storm Sorcerer at the time but if you're not giving domain spells to any other subclasses I agree that one would be more appropriate.

Another interesting variation would be to re-roll those random spells periodically, either once per level or once per long rest.

And yes, little-used spells definitely do get some love. E.g. I was surprised to see how useful Jump can be for killing vampires clinging to the ceiling and Dodging while they regenerate.

Edit: what if sorcerers could cast any spell off the sorcerer list for triple point cost? "Spells known" are spells that you can cast efficiently.

 

[Yunru]

The difficulty would not be converting spell slots to points, that calculation is extremely simple. The complications that come in are balance concerns. A pure sorcerer is fairly underpowered in comparison to a wizard, but when multiclassed his primary weakness is ameliorated. Further, if a level in sorcerer gets you spell points in lieu of slots, most casting classes would probably want to get a level of sorcerer to utilize that system even if they aren't interested in actually being sorcerers. Spell points offer more power and versatility than spell slots, simply put.

You still require 2 levels for Metamagic, so that remains unchanged. Although you would have to put a Sorcerer level requirement on creating high-level slots like with the Spell Point system, but that's fine.

 

[MoonSong]

You still require 2 levels for Metamagic, so that remains unchanged. Although you would have to put a Sorcerer level requirement on creating high-level slots like with the Spell Point system, but that's fine.

Or just make sorcerer levels not stack with other casters levels?

 

[Fritzo]

That was not the point being addressed. It helps if you stick to one point at a time, rather than bounce around changing the location of the goalposts to suit an agenda.

I hate to be pedantic but it was you corwin who failed to take on my point first, trying to avoid my argument. I said:

Oh no you misunderstand me, I do think its cool. But considering the designers have in their mind that a typical adventuring day takes 6 to 8 encounters. I think the idea of using your coolest ability 3 times over that many encounters is lacking. Especially when using that ability is competing with one other metamagic at that level, and a class ability.

and this is how you quote me:

Oh no you misunderstand me, I do think its cool. But considering the designers have in their mind that a typical adventuring day takes 6 to 8 encounters.

And yet a similarly leveled fighter typically only has Action Surge three times a day as well, given the same encounter recommendations you just cited.

I go on to say how a Fighters Action Surges don't compete for use with it's other class abilities(which somehow isn't answering your point). Also mate just go back to post #14, my first post in this thread. I'm basically explaining to Defcon why i feel sorcery points are too few. You won't believe what i say in that post, take a guess?