Self-Mutilation Powers

[Fallen Seraph]

Gnomes have different characteristics as strategists than lizards. Again, I see no reason why a gnome couldn't stab himself in order to turn invisible, and I think they might occasionally be inclined to do so.

Well your assuming it is entirely pain based. It could be fear based. A gnome wouldn't fear itself from being stabbed (unless itself was dominated), but if it was under attack from someone else then it could very well be scared. This fear could be what activates the invisibility, and it doesn't intensify enough till the Gnome is actually attacked.

 

[Surgoshan]

Sort of like being tickled. You can't tickle yourself, a gnome can't stab himself and turn invisible.

 

[Ravingdork]

Not to mention the ability might read "When attacked by an enemy..." With such a trigger, stabbing yourself wouldn't work (since you are not your enemy any more than you are your ally).

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Thinking about dragons and their breaths and gnomes and their invisibility has gotten me thinking... doesn't 4e create a perverse incentive to occasionally attack yourself?

I can't think of a good reason for the Dragon to hurt himself.

The PC are going to bloody him soon enough. The whole advantage of that bloodied breath is that it's a free action. If you have to waste an action to activate it, it becomes a standard action and wouldn't be nearly as powerful. And if on top of wasting an action you inflict damage to yourself in the process... We've moved from the realm of uselessness and into idiocy.

The gnome is another matter. It's obvious that there would be advantage to controlling when your invis. kick s in through self-mutiliation. But I expect the wording of the power disallow that. I see it more as an unconscious defense mecanism that require that you be in danger and so the word 'Enemy' probably appears in the mechanics and prevent you from using that trick.

 

[Family]

Okay. We have a whole new edition coming out here. Some of us have grown up on this stuff and now have houses and basements of our own, neighbors wave to us; I have recently bought a shirt with buttons. We're going to be inviting friends, family, even females to join us for a night of gaming. So let's tidy up, go for a walk, AND STOP TALKING ABOUT EMOGORGONIAN ACTIVITIES!

After all, that is the first rule of cult club.

 

[Dausuul]

The PC are going to bloody him soon enough. The whole advantage of that bloodied breath is that it's a free action. If you have to waste an action to activate it, it becomes a standard action and wouldn't be nearly as powerful. And if on top of wasting an action you inflict damage to yourself in the process... We've moved from the realm of uselessness and into idiocy.

If the dragon is just a couple hit points above Bloodied, and its breath weapon hasn't recharged... yeah, I could see it using a standard action to thwack itself and thereby trigger a breath weapon. That way it can use its move action to position itself just right, rather than having to make do with whatever setup it happens to be in when the adventurers take it down to Bloodied.

I think I'll be implementing a house rule that damaging yourself does not trigger any "when Bloodied" abilities.

 

[VBMEW-01]

I'm going to laugh so hard at any player at my table who tries this crazy stuff. We're supposed to try to say yes, I know, but it's supposed to remain somewhat believable (note I did not say realistic). Likewise, my players would hit the roof if I did something like that with the dragon. I'd just as soon fake a recharge than that.

As said above, I don't think a gnome's self-inflicted wound would engage the ability. Panic seems believable, and easily foreseeable, in the wee folk.

 

[keterys]

For those who missed it... you can't take an immediate action on your turn.

So you're safe from self-mutilitation. No protection from asking an ally to do it, unless it specifies 'enemy' I suppose.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

If the dragon is just a couple hit points above Bloodied, and its breath weapon hasn't recharged... yeah, I could see it using a standard action to thwack itself and thereby trigger a breath weapon. That way it can use its move action to position itself just right, rather than having to make do with whatever setup it happens to be in when the adventurers take it down to Bloodied.

Dragon against full party, Fighter and Warlord in melee contact, flanking.

Scenario A :

Dragon Attacks Defender with a bite (+10 VS AC, 1D+3, 5 ongoing), then gets bloodied and get a breath attack (+7 VS reflex, 5 ongoing, -4 penalty to AC until save).

Scenario B :

Dragon moves to set himself for a better breath (with 2 target instead of one), gets AoD by both the Fighter and Warlord and... well he likely gets bloodied at this point, doesn't he? If he doesn't, he still has to inflict 3 hp or so to himself and then gets 2*((+7 VS reflex, 5 ongoing, -4 penalty to AC until save).

All in all, awful tactic.

 

[jaldaen]

For those who missed it... you can't take an immediate action on your turn. So you're safe from self-mutilitation. No protection from asking an ally to do it, unless it specifies 'enemy' I suppose.

The voice of reason speaks... except for the whole ally attacking thing... that's just well not nice... unless the immediate action is a heal for everyone... then pound away to you heart's content