Self-Mutilation Powers

[Lizard]

Lizards are not very likely to say, "You know what? It would be awesome to be invisible right now."

Au contraire, I said that to the ogre mage in my group just this very night.

Unfortunately, he was at -umpty million and regenerating, so he couldn't oblige.

This was the point where I turned into a shark.

Gods, I love D&D.

 

[Lizard]

I'm going to laugh so hard at any player at my table who tries this crazy stuff. We're supposed to try to say yes, I know, but it's supposed to remain somewhat believable (note I did not say realistic). Likewise, my players would hit the roof if I did something like that with the dragon. I'd just as soon fake a recharge than that.

As said above, I don't think a gnome's self-inflicted wound would engage the ability. Panic seems believable, and easily foreseeable, in the wee folk.

Amusingly, this came up in play tonight.

We were fighting a Drowned, a creature which apparently...er..drowns you.

The ogre magi had been knocked down to -19 hit points by the thing.

Then it failed a Con check and began drowning.

Which, according to the rules, put it at exactly 0 hit points.

So the entire group decided that any time the OM was down to ludicrous negatives, as he often is, someone will take a full round action to strangle him, bringing him to 0 hit points and making him a lot easier to heal.

 

[Surgoshan]

I'd like to point out that "magi" is a plural noun. The singular is "magus". I have nothing further of substance to add to the thread.

 

[keterys]

Whereas I was going to mention that the ogre mage probably wasn't really at -19 hp since he'd be dead - but more likely was at something like

60 of 90 hp
79 nonlethal damage

Which you might think of as -19, but is pretty different. Particularly for this rule.

 

[The Little Raven]

Not to mention the ability might read "When attacked by an enemy..." With such a trigger, stabbing yourself wouldn't work (since you are not your enemy any more than you are your ally).

You are actually always considered an ally for the purposes of your own powers. I would take that to mean that you can never be your own enemy.

 

[pawsplay]

Well your assuming it is entirely pain based. It could be fear based. A gnome wouldn't fear itself from being stabbed (unless itself was dominated), but if it was under attack from someone else then it could very well be scared. This fear could be what activates the invisibility, and it doesn't intensify enough till the Gnome is actually attacked.

In which case it would be merely illogical, as opposed to perverse.

Also, how do we know you can't take an immediate action on your turn? If so, feather fall must work differently in 4e, or else it has some strange problems with its utility.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

In which case it would be merely illogical, as opposed to perverse.

How is it illogical? If I am scared I can do things I normally can't do, like run farther/faster, notice things more quickly, etc. It is your bodies instincts/adrenaline taking over, in the case of the Gnome that means invisibility.

 

[pawsplay]

How is it illogical? If I am scared I can do things I normally can't do, like run farther/faster, notice things more quickly, etc. It is your bodies instincts/adrenaline taking over, in the case of the Gnome that means invisibility.

Further/faster/more is a little different than, WHOOMP, I have a super power. No, there's not any really good reason why the magic would only work when you're scared. Running and noticing things are stuff I do all the time, and the baseline for D&D is that when I'm in a challenge situation, my stats reflect my adrenaline-charged abilities. Strongly instinct-driven behavior is just not something you see in higher mammals anyway.

 

[Kordeth]

You are actually always considered an ally for the purposes of your own powers. I would take that to mean that you can never be your own enemy.

Err, no, actually, unless a power specifically says "you or an ally" or the like, you're not considered your own ally.

When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your teammates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets.

Interestingly for the rules lawyerish:

“Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.

You count as a creature, but not as your ally. An enemy is any creature that isn't your ally. Ergo, you are your own enemy.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't allow it, except maybe to ramp up a villain's creep-factor. It's the same sort of metagamey silliness as the bag o' rats fighter.

 

[Lizard]

Whereas I was going to mention that the ogre mage probably wasn't really at -19 hp since he'd be dead - but more likely was at something like

60 of 90 hp
79 nonlethal damage

Which you might think of as -19, but is pretty different. Particularly for this rule.

True, but since it would take him 19 turns of regenerating (or need 19 points of healing) to be conscious again, we've been calling it "-19" for those purposes. Probably, when dealing with effects like this, we should be more scrupulous.