D&D 5E Sell me on 5th…

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like if someone wants to sell Dannyalcatraz on 5e, obfuscating the existence of the Ranger at all would be in the Top 10 Priorities.

 

[Voadam]

I have had a lot of fun reskinning 5e core options to do odd concepts.

1 A communist rune smith dwarf. Mechanical dwarven cleric with life domain who was narratively non theistic and just spent 20 years learning to craft dwarven magical runes, particularly life ones for healing, for the greater good. Warhammer and throwing sickle.

2 Anime warrior. Mechanically a vow of glory (out of Tasha's) paladin who narratively is just awesome and being around him makes others be their better selves, smites are anime super blows, lay on hands is warlord inspiration, his auras are that things are better when he's around.

3 Viking Wizard. Mechanical valor bard background pirate modelling himself on a professional wrestler. Looked like he had an 18 strength, but that was mostly his 18 Charisma and boasting giving that impression over his 14 strength.

My current 5e game I am DMing for my conversion of the Pathfinder Sci-Fi in D&D Iron Gods adventure path has had a bunch.

1 World of Darkness lupus Werewolf (wolf that turns into a man). Mechanically a human druid, druid spells were werewolf gifts and rites.

2 World of Darkness Gurahl Werebear. Mechanically a barbarian whose rage included narrative shapeshifting.

3 Robot technologist librarian who is basically a Google machine. Mechanically a warforged artificer with a slightly modified UA playtest article archivist subclass and the cartographer background (for Google maps functions). All spells have been done out reskinned as techo items and he uses no magic. Levitate is rocket boots, magic stone is finger guns, his homunculus is a drone, comprehend languages is google translate.

4 Steampunk space marine priest of an Acme cult of invention. Cleric. Plate armor is narratively space marine armor, his +1 mace is a power glove, his spirit guardians manifest as falling anvils.

5 Gamera type cranky octogenarian not-ninja turtle. Mechanically a tortle hexblade warlock. His beak was his hexblade weapon, he spit eldritch bolt fire.

6 Orcish mechanic to a crazy AI super tech monster truck. Half Orc rune knight barbarian(?). I have not looked to closely at this PC's specifics, but his maul is a +1 two handed wrench, he has overalls of fire resistance, one of the rune knight things is a comprehend languages ability, which narratively we made the AI replacing his eye with a cyberscanner that can read the repair manuals in the AI's alien language.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I feel like if someone wants to sell Dannyalcatraz on 5e, obfuscating the existence of the Ranger at all would be in the Top 10 Priorities.

Amusingly, although my first two D&D PCs ever were both Fighters, I’ve probably played more Rangers than any other warrior class over the past 40+ years.

 

[Older Beholder]

FWIW, I:

1) tend not to assume optional rules are being used.

2) would expect characters of the classes to share most features, because if they didn’t, what’s the point of considering them to be the same class?

I'm not sure if you use multiclassing (or if it's even an option rule?), but it's another thing I'd use to sell someone on 5E, if they're big on flexible character creation/builds.

In 5E you maintain an overall character level (for things like your proficiency modifier), so a fighter2/rogue3 is a level 5 character. You can choose which of your classes to raise when going up a level. Which is great for both players that like optimizing builds and players that like reflecting story in their character.

Optimizers can choose the best path to getting the strongest abilities quickly. Maybe you go for 5 fighter levels first to get that extra attack before taking a level in rogue, or maybe you start with a couple of levels of rogue to get Cunning action.

Story focused players have the flexibility to tailor their character to the narrative. Perhaps the barbarian/druid spent most of the recent adventure using their spells to save a group of endangered forest creatures... you can reflect that by levelling up the druid side of your multiclass.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not sure if you use multiclassing (or if it's even an option rule?), but it's another thing I'd use to sell someone on 5E, if they're big on flexible character creation/builds.

My guess is that if I ever play 5Ed, I’d want to have multiclassing available. Historically speaking, probably 75% or more of my PCs across all editions so far have used some kind of multiclassing.

In 5E you maintain an overall character level (for things like your proficiency modifier), so a fighter2/rogue3 is a level 5 character.

I’m not sure I like that. I remember discussions on that when 5th launched, and it was one of the changes that irked me.

But there’s stuff in most editions that bug me. It might not be a dealbreaker in actual play.

You can choose which of your classes to raise when going up a level.

One of my favorite things about 3.X.

 

[Voadam]

I’m not sure I like that. I remember discussions on that when 5th launched, and it was one of the changes that irked me.

Proficiency bonus is for attack bonus on proficient weapons, skills you are skilled at, and your good saving throws, that's pretty much it. Keeps equal level characters pretty much equal for those things.

Also you will want to read up on the specifics of multiclassing: stat prereqs, what you get from multiclassing (not full class abilities like armor and weapons and skills and saves, mostly abilities connected to level after that base).

 

[FrozenNorth]

1 World of Darkness lupus Werewolf (wolf that turns into a man). Mechanically a human druid, druid spells were werewolf gifts and rites.

And not, as I had initially thought, a werewolf suffering from lupus.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Backgrounds are present in PHB1, but were pure flavor at the time. They gained actual mechanical benefits in PHB2, but were still mostly flavor. And, as always, all of the 4e PHBs are equally "core" books. That's where the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, and Sorcerer were. "PHB1/2/3" doesn't mean what it meant in 3e (and we will never get a numbered PHB again, so it will never mean either of those things again.)

Point of Information: Backgrounds were given mechanical benefits with the Scales of War Adventure Path, the first part of which came out either the same month or the month after the PHB. By the time of the PHB2 they'd been in the character builder almost as long as anything - and I'm not sure how the PHB1 missed them other than that 4e was rushed out of the door to meet an arbitrary deadline.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I’ve been playing since ‘77, and I’ve gotten to try most of the D&D stereotypes across the various editions. My fave so far has been 3.X, because of the flexibility.

As 3.5Ed ran its course, I started playing odder and odder characters, built using unusual classes & races. I haven’t gotten to play everything I wanted in that edition, and still design PCs with that ruleset. As time passed the more exotic they got.

I didn’t like 4Ed as much, but- again- had more PC concepts on paper than I ever got to play. I really liked that version of the Warlock, and some of the other options appealed to me on their own merits, inspiring different character concepts from 3.X.

But what I saw from the 5Ed playtest reports kinda left me cold. And many of the subsequent threads here over the years haven’t much moved me. However, a close friend is thinking about getting into 5Ed, and I’m wondering if I’m not giving the system a fair shake.

So, I’m looking for an overview of the races & classes available for PCs, to see if any of my unplayed characters would be supported by the latest edition, or if there are new esoteric options that might inspire me to create new heroes.

Wat’cha got?

My normal pitch for 5e is that it will do 70% of the work for 30% of the effort of previous editions. It's not the biggest, it's not the best, but it's relatively simple and does a relatively large amount by D&D standards. But you're asking for esoteric character concepts, of which there are a fair number.

I'd start with the Echo Knight Fighter. It's badly explained and Crawford's "clarifications" only made things more confusing. But it's basically a multiversal warrior (think Everything Everywhere All At Once - or Terry Pratchett's Trousers of Time) who instead of summoning skills from alternates summons the fading shades from dying echoes of potential timelines that did not in fact come to be. Such as one where that door was unlocked so they walked over there (where you summoned them from) and then you switch places with them. (I should mention that the Battlemaster subclass plays pretty well and has a different visceral feel to anything else while the Rune Knight is possibly worth looking at).

Next up are a couple of esoteric Warlock concepts; the Warlock feels like a mix of the 4e class and its own thing:

• Gap Year Genie. This is a genie-pact warlock whose patron is only known as "But da-ad" and whose focus is a small black square of warm obsidian. And just waves this black square to use their Invocations
• Recovering Athlete. This poor warrior was crippled in the arena through foul play and their patron took pity on them and couldn't fix their body but did give them magic. So they, with no theoretical magical training approached it the same way they had combat training. They only knew a couple of spells and simply did not know you're not supposed to be able to cast Disguise Self a hundred times before breakfast as part of your training regimen. Which is how they've taken what were supposed to be spells and turned them into Invocations.

Seriously, with Warlocks look at the Invocations you can cast At Will for character inspiration. I've given some guidance in another thread but there are a lot of things you can do based round the idea of leaning your concept on some at will magic; a deep dive into the Warlock is recommended especially if the 4e version inspired you (Undead and Fathomless are two great new patrons and you have many of the old ones).

Next up is the Paladin. And the Paladin takes the 4e Essentials Oath-driven Paladin with the oath not the alignment being the important part and extends on the concept. So non-alignment based Oaths such as the Oath of the Crown are new (the "classic" Paladin is the Oath of Devotion while Blackguards are either Oathbreakers or Oath of Conquest). But what I actually love about the 5e Paladin is, with DM support, the ability to lose faith and change your Oath without losing all powers; an Oath of the Crown Paladin might lose faith after realising they are working for a bastard and go into nihilism with the Oath of Glory before realising that people do matter and trying to make up for everything they did for the tyrant with the Oath of Redemption - changing subclasses. Major character turning points rather than lock-in and a lot subtler and more interesting than Paladin -> Blackguard. (There is no direct falling mechanic). Not bolding the subclasses because it's the transition that I like here. I am however going to say that a lot of Paladins are built with one level of Hexblade Warlock in order to be able to use Charisma as their melee attack stat. This is considered one of the strongest (and easiest to use) classes going.

Next the Barbarian. 4e made the Barbarian into something other than an angy fighter by having primal magic flowing through them and summoning spirits. 5e simplifies then expands on this (Berserkers and Battleragers are 3.X inspired and mechanically bad, Totem Warriors and Storm Heralds are 4e and good while Ancestral Guardians are 4e adjacent and workable) and allows you to build more simply than 4e ever did. Most of the PHB and Xanathar's are covering some 4e concepts, while Xanathar's and later supplements have things like Zealots, Giants, Wild Magic, and Beast transformers.

Then the Monk (which is going to get a huge glow-up with the forthcoming PHB). Monks aren't good - but they aren't 3.X or 1e monks either (even if the "caster" Four Elements and Sun Soul suck). Shadow ninjas with an at will teleport from shadow to shadow are fun. Drunken Masters are mostly one-shot potential. Astral Self's psychics and Mercy's balanced healers are, I think, new - while although from memory you could just about do the Ascendant Dragon in 4e you had to go into the weeds.

Artificers are an ... interesting try. They aren't the OP nonsense of 3.5 or the generic nonsense of 4e. However the Alchemist and Armourer are underpowered and the Artillerist is campaign specific depending on whether you can expect to have your cannon up. Their biggest problem is they don't create permanent items, but a Battle Smith with their pet robot and probably a gun, and in the right campaign the Artillerist are both new and good.

Bards are one of the strongest classes; ninth level spells and some Other Stuff plus the ability to poach spells from other classes. I'm not sure what will inspire you here - but it's worth mentioning that if you had some 3.X bard concepts that didn't quite work it might be worth going back to them. (The subclasses are mostly good).

Most of the rest of them are intending to be the old classes and 5e frequently only really started doing new things with Tasha's. So rapid fire.

• Rangers needed a complete revamp in Tasha's - but the Swarmkeeper, the Fey Wanderer, and possibly the Drakewarden are new and interesting - and Horizon Walkers and ninja Gloom Stalkers are non-generic returnees
• Druids have Moon as bigger shapeshifters than in 3.X while working more like that than 4e. More interesting may be Wildfire with their flame-pets, Spores as fungus focused, and Stars. We're soon to get Sea
• Rogues are far better implemented than pre-4e although you can autopilot them. Cunning Action is great; Bonus (a.k.a. Swift a.k.a. Minor) action to Hide, Dash, or Disengage for a lot of mobility. The new esoteric stuff is all in Tasha's; the Soulknife (think Psylocke from the X-Men Cartoons - or any skills based "psychic spy"), and the soul-collecting Phantom
• Sorcerers aren't as weak as in 3.X but pre-Tasha's you have far too few spells known. This means that the only two worthwhile subclasses are the Aberrant Mind (a.k.a. Psion) and Clockwork Soul from Tasha's. This is going to be fixed in the 2024 iteration of the rules.
• Wizards and Clerics are nothing new other than very minor twists, other than that you can laser-cleric. They're all about the spells.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

skills you are skilled at

That was what I found irksome.