Sell me on Arcana Evolved.

[SWBaxter]

I happen to see a VERY handy spell that will neatly deal with this: PURGE AKASHIC RECORD.

Probably wouldn't affect the ability Dannyalcatraz quoted, since that ability channels a specific individual (though it'd rely on a GM's call as to exactly how the spell works). It does affect the collective memory, accessed via the Akashic's "Delve into collective memory" ability, which is the Akashic's main tool for finding things out if he doesn't know of a specific individual who can help out, so it's useful for more general editing.

It's a high level spell, (9th/10th level) that can purge an individual's presence from the entirety of the Akashic record of history. If a god wanted to hide themselves, it's entirely possible that they would have used that spell at some point.

Or one of their enemies might do the same. If you use the default AU background, chances are good the Dramojh mucked around with the collective memory while they were in charge. In particular, the Diamond Throne setting has some gods who opposed the Dramojh, wouldn't be a big shock to find out the Dramojh spent some of their plunder on messing with the memories of those enemies.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

That's a neat idea! Selective arrangement of the akashic memory. You could have a villain in an AE campaign who isn't revealed until nearing close to levels 20-25 because he/she/it was removing all their traces.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The akashic ability would also be useless if the gods were simply created or came into being and were already divine. They had never "lived" per se. MAYBE a god who had once been a mortal and was raised up could be subject to it, but I don't see it.

Reread that- its able to access any being "any intelligent creature who is alive or who as ever lived."

Regardless of origin, I don't really see how you could claim that a god is either 1) not a creature, or 2) not alive, thus, any god would be subject to this ability.

 

[SWBaxter]

Reread that- its able to access any being "any intelligent creature who is alive or who as ever lived."

Regardless of origin, I don't really see how you could claim that a god is either 1) not a creature, or 2) not alive, thus, any god would be subject to this ability.

Since neither "creature" nor "alive" are defined game terms, what's subject to the ability is a pure GM's call, and I don't think it's out of the question to consider that some GMs may exclude gods. They would have support from the way "living creature" is normally used in the real world, where the science of biology - at heart the study of living creatures - spends very little time examining the existence of gods.

Note that AU has a lot of such GM's call areas - the nature of the divine (if any), the nature and extent of the collective memory, cosmology in general, etc. - and according to Monte this is by design.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Since neither "creature" nor "alive" are defined game terms, what's subject to the ability is a pure GM's call, and I don't think it's out of the question to consider that some GMs may exclude gods.

"Breathe" and many other words don't a defined game term either. I think we can safely rely on a dictionary definition for those and for "creature" and "alive." In fact, I'd argue that where the game doesn't define a term, the dictionary definition would be the default interpretation.

 

[Seeten]

Sounds good. By the way, Arcana Evolved is really neat. Its too bad I've never found a group interested in playing it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

AU/AE really IS one of the top 5 3rd party takes on the D20 system. I'm sure you could get someone to play it eventually.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Nope.

My problem is that with the nature of magic in AU/AE, this kind of ambiguity couldn't exist.

Consider that akashic ability I mentioned. By using it, the akashic would be able to discern without a doubt that a particular deity existed. Either the entity would posess the akashic, thus allowing others to communicate with it, or nothing would happen- indicating that such a being never existed.

You're kidding me, right?

I find it rather hard to imagine a world in which one couldn't make the argument that the gods aren't susceptible to that akashic ability, or are somehow beyond it, or CHOOSE not to let the akashic access their memories. Or cast spells that purge their akashic memory record. Et cetera. The existence of divinatory abilities is hardly sufficient to resolve big philosophical questions like those concerning the existence of the gods.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You're kidding me, right?

Not kidding at all.

Its a high enough level ability (available only between levels 15-19) that if you take that position, you might as well argue that gods are not susceptible to ANY mortal action (a fully valid position). Granted, the concept of mortals directly confronting the gods appears in ancient legends and D&D, and not so much in AU/AE, but its a common enough plotline that it deserves consideration, especially if you use the Epic rules with AU/AE (which I don't).

 

[SSquirrel]

"Breathe" and many other words don't a defined game term either. I think we can safely rely on a dictionary definition for those and for "creature" and "alive." In fact, I'd argue that where the game doesn't define a term, the dictionary definition would be the default interpretation.

Well, I personally don't consider a god a creature OR alive. Nor do they need to breathe. They are forces of nature/part of this world/universe/whatever. I think we can assume a dictionary definition of gods. courtesy of dictionary.com:



1. God
1. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

Obviously 5 and 6 don't count in this case, but none of the other 4 seem to me that they would make the akashic ability work on the god in question.

Not kidding at all.

Its a high enough level ability (available only between levels 15-19) that if you take that position, you might as well argue that gods are not susceptible to ANY mortal action (a fully valid position). Granted, the concept of mortals directly confronting the gods appears in ancient legends and D&D, and not so much in AU/AE, but its a common enough plotline that it deserves consideration, especially if you use the Epic rules with AU/AE (which I don't).

I hated the ELH, thought it was a generally awful book. Monte's 21-25 is fine for me. I think it would perfectly fine to say that since the gods don't directly interact with the people in AE that they are removed enough that we can't affect them either.



See this is even on topic!! Are you sick of the gods constantly messing with everyone like in the Forgotten Realms? Come to to world of the Diamond Throne, see the giants, the recently returned dragons, the dracha, Magisters, Warmains, Mageblades, Greenbonds, Mojh, Litorians and more!!

Yeah, it's like some weird travel guide to AE