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Selling Spellcasting During Downtime
- Thread starter Hassassin
- Start date
Check the DMG pg 137 for gp limits per size of town.
It will help with guidelines for how much money is freely available in a given population/town.
PCs can only make as much as is available in a given economy - many of us tend to forget that and that there is actually a table with guidelines in the DMG tohelp out with it instead of "eyeballing it".
Basically using spellcasting services table will most likely use up the available econominc resources ina given town much quicker than other means at the PCs fingertips.
It will help with guidelines for how much money is freely available in a given population/town.
PCs can only make as much as is available in a given economy - many of us tend to forget that and that there is actually a table with guidelines in the DMG tohelp out with it instead of "eyeballing it".
Basically using spellcasting services table will most likely use up the available econominc resources ina given town much quicker than other means at the PCs fingertips.
Did you read my post? There's no way a non-epic party will exhaust the resources of even a small city.
So what is the structure of your world?
How many small cities?
How many larger cities?
If there are a lot of small cities (population of 10,000 or so people) then there aren't a lot of places for monsters to locate?
Not many monsters, not much "adventure".
If it is an urban oriented game then you have the "politics" issue where things are not as "easy" as the PCs would like them to be - the protection racket starts to key in as well as "taxes" and "tribute", etc.
How many small cities?
How many larger cities?
If there are a lot of small cities (population of 10,000 or so people) then there aren't a lot of places for monsters to locate?
Not many monsters, not much "adventure".
If it is an urban oriented game then you have the "politics" issue where things are not as "easy" as the PCs would like them to be - the protection racket starts to key in as well as "taxes" and "tribute", etc.
Scurvy_Platypus
Explorer
I personally like to keep things as simple as possible. Since this is being done on "downtime", that seems reasonable; the whole job thing isn't a major focus of the game, just something that's being done on the side for a bit of character development and possibly a minor benefit occasionally.
My own personal approach is to skip creating new rules when I can hijack something that's already around; especially since already existing mechanics will often have plenty of people that complain about what's wrong with them and how to fix them.
Basically, why bother creating rules when there's already stuff playtested and bitched about just waiting for you?
In this particular case, I'd look to d20 Modern actually. The index page for what I'd look to use is here:
d20 Modern System Reference Document
Now, I'd personally treat any of the business venture stuff in D&D abstractly, simply using the Wealth mechanic from d20 Modern:
MSRD Wealth
Essentially the business can be off doing its own "thing" as it were. If a player wants to tap into the "profits" of the business in order to acquire gear, then it's a Wealth check. Failure indicates that there's not enough resources left over from the operation of the business in order to purchase whatever they want.
This is kept seperate from the cash that's given to a PC, although they can convert the cash (gold, magic items, whatever) over and roll it into their business if they want; I'd probably encourage the player to keep them seperate though, with the treasure given during the course of the adventure simply representing the easy money and cash-on-hand like it normally does.
You can also consider using the Reputation mechanic out of d20 Modern as well:
MSRD Reputation
The Reputation could be a two-way street. Being an adventurer could help the business, or the business could actually enhance the character's Reputation.
The rules will probably need to be adjusted a bit to fit individual GMs games, but that should be a solid enough starting point for you.
The thing to remember with D&D is that for better or worse, money is a resource that is managed as much (if not more so) at the player level than at the character level; money is able to buy very real game mechanic benefits. That being the case, treating a business as a concrete sort of thing like the money that is awarded for going out and killing things means that you're running a risk of throwing the metagame out of whack.
Abstract the business, allow it to provide some benefits like acquiring mundane gear or even very occasionally a magic item, but mainly leave it doing "in-game" stuff and enhancing reputation or vague things like the the quality of inn the character can afford to stay in when they adventure.
My own personal approach is to skip creating new rules when I can hijack something that's already around; especially since already existing mechanics will often have plenty of people that complain about what's wrong with them and how to fix them.
Basically, why bother creating rules when there's already stuff playtested and bitched about just waiting for you?
In this particular case, I'd look to d20 Modern actually. The index page for what I'd look to use is here:
d20 Modern System Reference Document
Now, I'd personally treat any of the business venture stuff in D&D abstractly, simply using the Wealth mechanic from d20 Modern:
MSRD Wealth
Essentially the business can be off doing its own "thing" as it were. If a player wants to tap into the "profits" of the business in order to acquire gear, then it's a Wealth check. Failure indicates that there's not enough resources left over from the operation of the business in order to purchase whatever they want.
This is kept seperate from the cash that's given to a PC, although they can convert the cash (gold, magic items, whatever) over and roll it into their business if they want; I'd probably encourage the player to keep them seperate though, with the treasure given during the course of the adventure simply representing the easy money and cash-on-hand like it normally does.
You can also consider using the Reputation mechanic out of d20 Modern as well:
MSRD Reputation
The Reputation could be a two-way street. Being an adventurer could help the business, or the business could actually enhance the character's Reputation.
The rules will probably need to be adjusted a bit to fit individual GMs games, but that should be a solid enough starting point for you.
The thing to remember with D&D is that for better or worse, money is a resource that is managed as much (if not more so) at the player level than at the character level; money is able to buy very real game mechanic benefits. That being the case, treating a business as a concrete sort of thing like the money that is awarded for going out and killing things means that you're running a risk of throwing the metagame out of whack.
Abstract the business, allow it to provide some benefits like acquiring mundane gear or even very occasionally a magic item, but mainly leave it doing "in-game" stuff and enhancing reputation or vague things like the the quality of inn the character can afford to stay in when they adventure.
Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
When I've run a game in which a spellcaster wanted to sell his spellcasting services during periods of down time, I allowed the spellcaster to make a spellcaster level check in place of the Profession check to determine earnings, the only difference being that I did not cut the result in half (to make up for the fact that skills generally have a higher bonus than caster level).
Rhun
First Post
Along these lines, you probably could have allowed him to use his Spellcraft skill instead of a caster level check, which would be more on par with the Profession check.
I had something similar to this come up a while back in my campaign.
We figured that when someone needed a spell cast, particularly if they were from out of town, they were most likely going to head to the local Mages Guild, if there was one.
From there, it made sense that the Guild might have a standing agreement with its members to act as brokers for spellcasting services.
If a Guild member wishes, he can tell the Guild, "Hi, I'm available today to cast [insert list of spells here]." The DM (or his dice) can then decide whether or not there is a need for any of those spells that day.
Table 69 in the DMG (2e) lists spell-casting costs. Rather than pay that amount to the PC, though, the Guild takes a portion of the cost and pays the rest to the PC. If the Guild is just acting as a broker, they may take a small (10%) cut of the fee. If they're providing the business frontage, material components, etc then they may take a very large (90%) of the fee.
With ours, the Guild was providing location, components, etc. We ended up using a simplified system where we took the PC's total spell levels for the day, multiplying that by 10, and that was how many gold pieces the PC had made that day.
For example, a 9th level wizard would have 4 1st-level spells, 3 2nd-level spells, 3 3rd-level spells, 2 4th-level spells, and 1 5th-level spells for a total of 32 spell levels (4x1 + 3x2 + 3x3 + 2x4 + 1x5 = 4+6+9+8+5 = 32), so on any given day the PC would reasonably expect to clear 320 gold pieces.
Not a way to get fabulously wealthy, but if you're stuck in town with nothing to do for a week, it's a quick way to pick up 2,240 GP.
We figured that when someone needed a spell cast, particularly if they were from out of town, they were most likely going to head to the local Mages Guild, if there was one.
From there, it made sense that the Guild might have a standing agreement with its members to act as brokers for spellcasting services.
If a Guild member wishes, he can tell the Guild, "Hi, I'm available today to cast [insert list of spells here]." The DM (or his dice) can then decide whether or not there is a need for any of those spells that day.
Table 69 in the DMG (2e) lists spell-casting costs. Rather than pay that amount to the PC, though, the Guild takes a portion of the cost and pays the rest to the PC. If the Guild is just acting as a broker, they may take a small (10%) cut of the fee. If they're providing the business frontage, material components, etc then they may take a very large (90%) of the fee.
With ours, the Guild was providing location, components, etc. We ended up using a simplified system where we took the PC's total spell levels for the day, multiplying that by 10, and that was how many gold pieces the PC had made that day.
For example, a 9th level wizard would have 4 1st-level spells, 3 2nd-level spells, 3 3rd-level spells, 2 4th-level spells, and 1 5th-level spells for a total of 32 spell levels (4x1 + 3x2 + 3x3 + 2x4 + 1x5 = 4+6+9+8+5 = 32), so on any given day the PC would reasonably expect to clear 320 gold pieces.
Not a way to get fabulously wealthy, but if you're stuck in town with nothing to do for a week, it's a quick way to pick up 2,240 GP.
Rhun
First Post
That reflects an extremely large number of people in town shopping for spells. Magic is obviously in much more common use in your campaign world than in mine.
Not a way to get fabulously wealthy? The 9th level wizard decides to take a year off from adventuring, and suddenly he has 100,000+ gold pieces to spend on gear when he picks it back. That's pretty wealthy.
Not really.
Consider the spells someone is most likely to be seeking. Detect _____, Dispel Magic, Identify, with maybe the occasional Teleport thrown in for variety.
If you go by the prices listed in the DMG, any of the Detect _____ spells are 100 gp. Identify is 1000 gp per item or function, and Dispel Magic is 100 gp per caster level (900 gp in this case).
If our hypothetical mage does one Identify (single-function item), one Dispel, and one Detect Magic, that's 2,000 gp, which is within the ballpark for a week of work at the rates given. Three spells in a week doesn't seem to me like "much more common use." In fact, it is the campaigns where there are fewer mages that a scenario like that becomes more feasible.
Yes, it is. But you're assuming taking NO days off for ANY reason -- and also assumes that the Guild is willing to provide those services 365 days a year. Plus, to get those fees you're expected to be at the Guild house all day, available whenever they need to call on you, which means no other activities like working on potions/scrolls/research, etc.
Also, compare that 100k against what the PC could be making while out adventuring. In a full year of adventuring at this level in many campaigns, the monetary and magic item treasure could certainly exceed 100k, plus you get the experience points to move you towards your next level.
This method was never intended as a "day in/day out" livelihood for a PC. It was intended purely to be purely for short-term use.
And if the DM feels like this is too much "easy money" for a character, all you have to do is change the pay scales.
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