D&D 5E (2014) Shadow Sorcerer + Warcaster + Polearm Master + Eye of Darkness = Is It insane?

[Benjamin Olson]

No, PAM works because I'm wielding a Glaive.
Hold a Glaive and Attack with a dagger. Yes, Warcaster feat allows the Sorcerer do it. It can hold with one hand (Giant Glaive) and attack with off-hand weapon (Magical Dagger).

"Holding" isn't "wielding". A two-handed weapon requires only one hand to hold, but two to wield. You have to be wielding it for the feat to give you extra attacks of opportunity, which is what you are using the feat for I thought.

 

[Hohige]

Back to, how are you proficient in the Glaive?

And, hold, yes, attack, how? The Glaive is a 2 Handed weapon. Are you dropping the dagger every time you use it? Seems clunky!


That's a BIG assumption! Kind of like saying the devotion paladin always activates his channel divinity before combat (when in reality the standard action is a big downside).

Anyway, sure, under IDEAL conditions, it's a killer set of abilities.

It isn't proficient
It requires 2 hands is for attacking only. He can normally hold with one hand and the dagger with the off-hand weapon.

It doesn't need a IDEAL condition, It's flexible enough to fight in every situation.

 

[Hohige]

"Holding" isn't "wielding". A two-handed weapon requires only one hand to hold, but two to wield. You have to be wielding it for the feat to give you extra attacks of opportunity, which is what you are using the feat for I thought.

The Glaive requires two hands only when you attack with it.

"This weapon requires two hands when you Attack with it."

It's clear, The Sorcerer doesn't need two hands because It isn't attacking with this weapon.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The Glaive requires two hands only when you attack with it.

"This weapon requires two hands when you Attack with it."

It's clear, The Sorcerer doesn't need two hands because It isn't attacking with this weapon.

Per the feat (emphasis mine):
"While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach."

If you want your extra opportunity attacks you've got to be "wielding" the thing. 5e isn't a technical term of art oriented system, but the normal English understanding of "wielding a weapon" is to hold it in a manner where it can be used, not just to hold it.

 

[Hohige]

Per the feat (emphasis mine):
"While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach."

If you want your extra opportunity attacks you've got to be "wielding" the thing. 5e isn't a technical term of art oriented system, but the normal English understanding of "wielding a weapon" is to hold it in a manner where it can be used, not just to hold it.

It's pretty clear :
"Two-Handed
This weapon requires two hands when you Attack with it."

The Sorcerer isn't attacking this that weapon, It doesn't require two hands.


So, a fighter wielding a greatersword and a shield can't attack because It requires two hands.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

It's pretty clear :
"Two-Handed
This weapon requires two hands when you Attack with it."

The Sorcerer isn't attacking this that weapon, It doesn't require two hands.


So, a fighter wielding a greatersword and a shield can't attack because It requires two hands.

This isn't about attacking, this is about whether holding a weapon in a way where it can't be used to make an attack in any way counts as "wielding it" for the purpose of triggering PAM opportunity attacks. I'd definitely say no, and I can't imagine I'm alone in that interpretation.

Just use a one handed spear or quarterstaff and avoid ranged attack roll spells for the attacks of opportunity and you can avoid a whole pile of rules lawyering. It helps trigger your hound's pack tactics advantage to boot.

 

[Hohige]

This isn't about attacking, this is about whether holding a weapon in a way where it can't be used to make an attack in any way counts as "wielding it" for the purpose of triggering PAM opportunity attacks. I'd definitely say no, and I can't imagine I'm alone in that interpretation.

Just use a one handed spear or quarterstaff and avoid ranged attack roll spells for the attacks of opportunity and you can avoid a whole pile of rules lawyering. It helps trigger your hound's pack tactics advantage to boot.

To me its pretty clear, but, The Glaive is more skin than mechanic. It's just pretty cool.

 

[ECMO3]

Booming blade, average 22 damage.

Only if he moves, which he does not have to do.

The Hound is attacking with advantage (Pack tatics) him for extra 10 damage and chance prone.
The Hound has 2 attacks with advantage per turn (normal attack and oportunity attack), both with prone chance and critical chance. 44 average damage per turn if all hits (All attack has advantage)

They are not all at advantage.

To start with the hound can't see in darkness and because of that can not possibly get advantage. The sorcerer also loses his advantage if casting any ranged spells if the hound knocks the enemy prone.

Prone imposes disadvantage unless you are within 5 feet and using a ranged attack within 5 feet also imposes disadvantage. This means if the hound knocks the bad guy prone you (the sorcerer) no longer advantage on anything except melee or touch attacks.

As a matter of fact the adversary can take away your advantage on scorching ray "shenanigan" simply by crawling the last 10 feet up to you and attacking you from the prone position. That would make him "prone" when the OA occurs and since he is 10 feet away you would have prone disadvantage to cancel the unssen attacker advantage. Further since your reach is 10 feet, you can't do booming blade as a reaction since it occurs at 10 feat away. So in reality all of your "warcaster shenannigans" are not at advantage, they are a straight up roll.

The Shadow Sorcerer can summon another The Hound on next turn

You can't summon another hound because you don't have enough sorcery points (you empowered your booming blade remember). 2 for darkness plus 3 for the first hound plus 1 for empowering booming blade is 6 and you only have 8.

A STR 20 fighter with PAM level 8, deals around 29 damage per turn without aditional effect. (without advantage).

No you are wrong. An Eldritch Knight fighter with 20 strength and great weapon fighting style and a +2 weapon who is going NOVA like you are is going to hit for 67 That is:

Booming Blade: 1d10+1d8+7 (rerolling 1s and 2s)
Warmagic: 1d10+7 (rerolling 1s and 2s)
Action surge booming blade: 1d10+1d8+7 (rerolling 1s and 2s)
plus 4d8 when the enemy moves.

That is without any "warcaster shenanigans" ..... which of course he could also do as well.

The difference is the EK can do this again after every short rest, while you can't summon another hound for the rest of the day and he always rerolls his 1s and 2s and does not need to use empowered spell to do it.

In addition to this he can heal himself, gets hit less, has more hps and has higher attack rolls.

This is also not by far the most powerful fighter build possible.

16 AC with disadvantage and immunity to oportunity attack (Darkness) is much better than 19 AC fighter. Bealive me. If put Shield Spell inside math, it's unfair.

No it isn't there is math in play here.

Inside darkness with a 16AC the chance of hitting you is 36%. The chance of hitting a 19AC Eldritch Knight (and it should be 20 by the way) with shield spell is 20% and that is if he attacked the first turn instead of casting a defensive spell like you did. If he cast blur on himself to start the combat then you are NINE TIMES more likely to be hit.

It is not unfair to put the shield spell in play, you are just choosing a different (and less effective) reaction. Even if we play by the same rules though and the EK has the same PAM and warcaster feats and he does the same OA trick you are using after casting a defensive spell (blur) on his first turn, he is still only hit 20.25% to your 36%. That is without the shield spell ..... and he has more hit points to boot.

 

[Charlaquin]

How strong is It?

It looks good on paper, but in practice it’s way more trouble than it’s worth.

No, it’s insane!

Why even ask if you’ve already made up your mind? Go ahead and try it if you really want. Just don’t be surprised when it ends up not actually being all that useful and constantly gets in the rest of the party’s way.

 

[TheSword]

To be fair as soon as you started claiming holding a non-proficient glaive one handed and attacking with a dagger gave you access to PAM abilities we would have had an OOG chat.

Also as your fellow party member I wanted to play a ranger not an AC 12 Giant ape. So save your polymorph cheers.