D&D 5E Shadow Sorcerer + Warcaster + Polearm Master + Eye of Darkness = Is It insane?

[Hohige]

Charm person during combat is highly unlikely to work all that well even at disadvantage.



You're blowing a 4th level spell on 1 opponent and doing a maximum of 10d6 (assuming they all hit) to 1 opponent - well ok.


By 7th level sleep is highly suboptimal - you probably swapped it out for something else!


16 AC by 7th level? If the monster is rushing you, he'll probably hit that most of the time - even at disadvantage. Remember, you can't cast shield.


Sure, 3rd level spell - decent resource cost and situational if your already in the middle of a fight.


Another HUGE resource cost - 4th level spell.


How are you quickening a 4th level spell with 2 spell points?
Or did you not bother with the darkness this time - but then you're now out spell points, can't cast and REALLY reliant on concentration saves (the giant ape bit is usually better on others so there isn't a con save EVERY time they get hit).

Again, interesting schtick, can certainly see trying it - but it's not insane.

Stardard Sleep is suboptimal, we know, but, lets see again.
With PAM+Warcaster combo, it's 100% chance of working. You reduce the enemy's hp with Spell Oportunity attack and then, sleep him. (humanoids).
A level 4 Sleep is average 58 HP. It's 100% nice your damage from Spell Oportunity attack.
a standard fighter level 7 has average 60 HP. Reducing 20 or more with your spell oportunity attack is 100% chance of sleep works against it. The fight is over.

Remember that Sorcerer can swap spells slots for sorcery points.

Fear isn't a level 4 spell slot.

Darkness 2 sp that you regain instantly with flexible casting.

so, you have 7 SP free.

Quickening to turn into a Giant Ape + The Hound is just too powerful.

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That premisse is bad because works for all spellcasters. Every leveled spell has a cost.

 

[Mort]

It's just one possibilities . The Giant Ape + The Hound is better melee than melee.

PAM+Warcaster is better melee than PAM melee.
You can burst more than 90 damage on a single round. Did you noticed it?

If you think that's better than a 7th level martial character can do, you haven't seen an optimized martial in action - and most builds won't blow all of their resources doing it!

Unlike 3e, where a caster could trounce a martial character at his own game and still have plenty to spare for his own schtick, 5e has sqaushed that. A caster CAN match a martial in melee, but it's resource intensive and unsustainable over a proper adventuring day.

 

[Hohige]

If you think that's better than a 7th level martial character can do, you haven't seen an optimized martial in action - and most builds won't blow all of their resources doing it!

I don't know if they can do it, but, It's just extra for standard shadow sorcerer shenanigans.

 

[TheSword]

Stardard Sleep is suboptimal, we know, but, lets see again.
With PAM+Warcaster combo, it's 100% chance of working. You reduce the enemy's hp with Spell Oportunity attack and then, sleep him. (humanoids).
A level 4 Sleep is average 58 HP. It's 100% nice your damage from Spell Oportunity attack.
a standard fighter level 7 has average 60 HP. Reducing 20 or more with your spell oportunity attack is 100% chance of sleep works against it. The fight is over.

Remember that Sorcerer can swap spells slots for sorcery points.

Fear isn't a level 4 spell slot.

Darkness 2 sp that you regain instantly with flexible casting.

so, you have 7 SP free.

Quickening to turn into a Giant Ape + The Hound is just too powerful.

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That premisse is bad because works for all spellcasters. Every leveled spell has a cost.

Wait, you haven’t got spells left to turn to sorcery points because you splurged them all in a couple of turns with PAM.

Sleep is a terrible spell for high level combat. Absolutely terrible because a single point of damage from their ally wakes them up. Better to just deal the damage.

Sleep also can’t be empowered it’s 49 average hp not 59. It also can’t be used for a Warcaster attack as it affects multiple foes.

I also hope you understand a 7th level fighter is likely to be somewhere around a CR 2 challenge. Considering a 5HD thug is CR1

 

[Hohige]

Wait, you haven’t got spells left to turn to sorcery points because you splurged them all in a couple of turns with PAM.

Sleep is a terrible spell for high level combat. Absolutely terrible because a single point of damage from their ally wakes them up. Better to just deal the damage.

Sleep also can’t be empowered it’s 49 average hp not 59. It also can’t be used for a Warcaster attack as it affects multiple foes.

I also hope you understand a 7th level fighter is likely to be somewhere around a CR 2 challenge. Considering a 5HD thug is CR1

Spending Sorcery Points or not is situational, if you want do burst or not. It works very very similar to sorcadins.

I usually defeat mages with sleep combo.
Empowered Booming Blade / Firebolt for average 12 damage + Quicken upcasted Sleep.
It certainly is useful and strong, but you need know the right moment to cast it.

 

[Mort]

Wait, you haven’t got spells left to turn to sorcery points because you splurged them all in a couple of turns with PAM.

Sleep is a terrible spell for high level combat. Absolutely terrible because a single point of damage from their ally wakes them up. Better to just deal the damage.

Sleep also can’t be empowered it’s 49 average hp not 59. It also can’t be used for a Warcaster attack as it affects multiple foes.

I also hope you understand a 7th level fighter is likely to be somewhere around a CR 2 challenge. Considering a 5HD thug is CR1

The thing about this the PAM and Warcaster feat on a sorcerer - it's single target.

I've found sorcerers do MUCH better when they let the martials deal with single targets and focus on multiples - either for buffing or for damage/incapacitation.

Truly effective sorcerer tactics at 7th level:

Twin haste on 2 party martials for 3 sorcerer points you now have 2 seriously buffed party members AND you can still cast non-concentration spells. simple and effective.

or

Open with Hypnotic Pattern and use careful spell as necessary. Hypnotic pattern is a great spell but it's a pain to position in many circumstances because it's not party friendly. Careful spell does not eliminate damage on AoE damage spells so is only semi useful for spells like fireball. Combine these 2 though and for 1 sorcery point you get the absolute best of both worlds - only the evoker can pull the same stunt.

So again, interesting tactic - but I guess I just object to it being placed on such a high pedestal.

 

[Hohige]

The thing about this the PAM and Warcaster feat on a sorcerer - it's single target.

I've found sorcerers do MUCH better when they let the martials deal with single targets and focus on multiples - either for buffing or for damage/incapacitation.

Truly effective sorcerer tactics at 7th level:

Twin haste on 2 party martials for 3 sorcerer points you now have 2 seriously buffed party members AND you can still cast non-concentration spells. simple and effective.

or

Open with Hypnotic Pattern and use careful spell as necessary. Hypnotic pattern is a great spell but it's a pain to position in many circumstances because it's not party friendly. Careful spell does not eliminate damage on AoE damage spells so is only semi useful for spells like fireball. Combine these 2 though and for 1 sorcery point you get the absolute best of both worlds - only the evoker can pull the same stunt.

So again, interesting tactic - but I guess I just object to it being places on such a high pedestal.

Careful Fear/Hypnotic Pattern + The Hound is insane. It also triggers Warcaster + PAM Spell oportunity attack.
Twin Polymorph turning allies into 2 Giant Ape + The Hound is insane.
both combo really well with Warcaster.

Thats why my next feat will be Metamagic Adept and pick Careful and Twin for still more and more versatility and still, deals a lot of burst damage on melee range and other shenanigans.
It will be certainly my strongest build that I already created.

Damage? It's a lot
Control? It's a lot
Buffing? The best
Advantage for everything and disadvage for enemies? Yes
Burst? It's a lot

It's by far the strongest and versatile build on tier 2. where 94% of games end.

It isn't a joke, It has "advantage" on Skill Checks too. It's called Magical Guidance...

 

[Iry]

Funny anecdote. A player ran a Darkness build at one table, and he did use it successfully many times.
But one time? The bad guys threw a blanket over him. DM use the Net rules, and made it cover the darkness emission.
A blanket.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Funny anecdote. A player ran a Darkness build at one table, and he did use it successfully many times.
But one time? The bad guys threw a blanket over him. DM use the Net rules, and made it cover the darkness emission.
A blanket.

Everyone knows nothing stacks up to a good ranged blanket build.

 

[Hohige]

Everyone knows nothing stacks up to a good ranged blanket build.

Broken !