Shadowdancer HiPS - what is effective against it?

[Pinotage]

Assuming a person could see someone using HiPS because they had darkvision, if that person cast Dispel Magic, would the person using HiPS suddenly become visible? Is HiPS a (Sp) or (Su) ability?

It's a Su ability, and Su abilities are not subject to anti-magic or dispelling.

Pinotage

 

[Aluvial]

Assuming a person could see someone using HiPS because they had darkvision, if that person cast Dispel Magic, would the person using HiPS suddenly become visible? Is HiPS a (Sp) or (Su) ability?

It is a Su ability.

 

[dcollins]

Does Darkvision, See Invisibility and/or True Seeing negate the Hide in Plain Sight ability of the Shadowdancer and allow an observer to see him without a Spot check? And how large must the shadow (within 10') be, to allow the Shadowdancer to use this ability?

Good question (especially since I'm DM'ing a 16th-level Shadowdancer right now). I think I'm forced by the letter of the rules to say "no" to the first three detection means -- however, I honestly feel that Darkvision and True Seeing (sees through darkness) should be "yes", inasmuch as an ability that counters the critical darkness should counter the ability. (And I can't come up with a rationalization/explanation for what's happening with Darkvision vs. Hide in Plain Sight that leaves the Shadowdancer unseen.)

To the last question I must rule "fairly large", because otherwise the gaping rules breakdown is just ridiculous ("I drop a thimble next to me and use its shadow").

 

[dcollins]

It's a Su ability, and Su abilities are not subject to anti-magic or dispelling.

Actually, they are subject to antimagic.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For all except True Seeing. The description specifically states that it doesn't foil normal hiding.

Except, of course, that it does.*

But only in the case where someone is using darkness to provide the concealment required to hide within 120' of the True Seer.

The subject sees through normal and magical darkness ... The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

* - The spell description says, pedantically:

True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means.

However, if the first paragraph is true, then it must be true that True Seeing does, occasionally, negate concealment - when it is caused by natural or magical darkness. Accordingly, it must therefore spot creatures who are simply hiding - so long as they are hiding due to the concealment offered by natural or magical darkness.

It does not spot a creature who is "simply hiding" behind a barrel, as "True seeing ... does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent."

 

[Nail]

The power reads in the SRD as:

"Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow."

So, IMHO, the shadowdancer is the one that needs the shadow in order to HiPS. Whether or not an opponent can see the shadow is irrelevant. (Those with Darkvision do not see shadows.) Therefore, Darkvision does not allow you to see a HiPS shadowdancer.

See Invisibility allows you to do the eponymous function; it does not allow you to see hidden creatures. Since the Shadowdancer is neither invisible nor ethereal, this spell does not let you see him.

True Seeing is the most awkward to interpret. The spirit of the spell wording implies that it would work. The actual words, OTOH, seem to exclude the possibility. IMC I'd house rule it to detect HiPS. YMMV.

 

[Aluvial]

Good question (especially since I'm DM'ing a 16th-level Shadowdancer right now). I think I'm forced by the letter of the rules to say "no" to the first three detection means -- however, I honestly feel that Darkvision and True Seeing (sees through darkness) should be "yes", inasmuch as an ability that counters the critical darkness should counter the ability. (And I can't come up with a rationalization/explanation for what's happening with Darkvision vs. Hide in Plain Sight that leaves the Shadowdancer unseen.)

To the last question I must rule "fairly large", because otherwise the gaping rules breakdown is just ridiculous ("I drop a thimble next to me and use its shadow").

I have the same problem, but my guy is 19th level now...

The answer is clearer if you look at shadows and light abstractly much like you look at cone and radius effects now. The 5x5 he is standing in is either in darkness, in shadow, or in light, relative to the viewer. Remeber that someone with low-light vision can see twice as far, meaning that the light effect is doubled. A character with Darkvision spots anything hiding in concealment, but not behind cover within his range.

So essentially, you look at the every light source, calculate the squares that are lit, double those for shadow, and that it. Either the Shadowdancer is within 10' of shadow or he isn't. If the light source moves, then the effect moves with it. If the Shadowdancer moves (he has to make another hide check anyway, and against each person who has a chance to spot him) into a lit area, and is more than 10' away from shadow, he becomes illuminated unless he is invisible or has cover to hide behind.

This isn't the easiest of soulutions, but it does cover all the bases within the rules. It is a lot to keep track of. Consider that each magical weapon puts out 5' of light, each light source and where there is shadow or not. Essentially shadows just got blocky.

Aluvial

 

[Pinotage]

Actually, they are subject to antimagic.

not is such a small word in the SRD!

Pinotage

 

[Pinotage]

Except, of course, that it does.*

Yes, of course. True Seeing can foil hiding in magical darkness.

Pinotage

 

[Nail]

The answer is clearer if you look at shadows and light abstractly much like you look at cone and radius effects now. The 5x5 he is standing in is either in darkness, in shadow, or in light, relative to the viewer. Remeber that someone with low-light vision can see twice as far, meaning that the light effect is doubled.

Careful.

Does someone with low-light vision change the "shadow conditions" in the area he is in?

Think that one through carefully.