Shadowdancer Question

[Aluvial]

How many shadows can a 9th level shadowdancer summon?

The DMG leads me to believe that you can do one, but the Epic Level Handbook makes it seem like you can summon one at 3rd, 6th and 9th.

Which is right?

Aluvial

 

[Cabral]

Summon Shadow: At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer. The summoned shadow cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This shadow serves as a companion to the shadowdancer and can communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer. Every third level gained by the shadowdancer allows her to summon an additional shadow and adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to all her shadow companions.
If a shadow companion is destroyed, or the shadowdancer chooses to dismiss it, the shadowdancer must attempt a Fortitude saving throw (DC 15). If the saving throw fails, the shadowdancer loses 200 experience points per shadowdancer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 100 XP per prestige class level. The shadowdancer’s experience can never go below 0 as the result of a shadow’s dismissal or destruction. A destroyed or dismissed shadow companion cannot be replaced for a year and a day.

At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This shadow serves as a companion to the shadowdancer and can communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer. Every third level gained by the shadowdancer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to her shadow companion.

If a shadow companion is destroyed, or the shadowdancer chooses to dismiss it, the shadowdancer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the shadowdancer loses 200 experience points per shadowdancer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 100 XP per prestige class level. The shadowdancer’s XP total can never go below 0 as the result of a shadow’s dismissal or destruction. A destroyed or dismissed shadow companion cannot be replaced for 30 days.

The Epic Level Handbook is a 3.0 book therefore some epic progressions have to be redone for 3.5

The 3.0 SRD can be found here.

 

[Taloras]

Yes, in 3.5 they removed the extra shadow companions(which makes the cleric in our group so much more happy...she HATES undead....and having one around that she just cant get rid of irks her in so many ways.

 

[Cabral]

My impression is that it's intended to be a shadow but not undead ... animated shadowstuff. You may try asking your DM if your shadow can be a construct instead of an Undead.

 

[Seeten]

...

 

[Nail]

It Lives!

 

[ARandomGod]

My impression is that it's intended to be a shadow but not undead ... animated shadowstuff. You may try asking your DM if your shadow can be a construct instead of an Undead.

It can't possibly be a REAL undead, as it has the alignment of it's master and it is completely immune to all turning. But it's treated as an undead in every other way, so... ... .. .. . .

I'd feel free if I were the SD to tell the cleric that it simply isn't an undead, and "prove" it to here by allowing her to play with turning it.

Of course, she'd still find it creepy as it clearly detects as undead, and it IS some sort of not actually alive construction of shadows, and does appear to be drawing power from the negative material plane.

Cleric: "So Ok, maybe MAYBE it's not and undead, but it still feels like one and it makes my skin crawl."

In Character these guys won't really have a manual to go by (Ok, actually, they might, but the manual will be one written by someone with no manuel, clerics often have things written down that they go by), and so testing and observation will be all they have to work with.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, but roars like a frikken dire-lion, it's probably not actually a duck.

 

[Evilhalfling]

So another question is how many HD does the companion have?

the SRD:

Every third level gained by the shadowdancer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to her shadow companion.

The book mentions the companion has 6 HD at 9th level, but since it starts with 3hd (mm)
and gains +2 at 6th and +2 at 9th = it should have at least 7 HD. (used IMC)
If the bonuses are calculated from total level then it would have 3+2+2+2 = 9hd making it effectivly a greater shadow. (so does it gain the 1d8 str drain?)

Can shadows take improved natural attack for higher Str drain?
or is there a similar ability in Liber Mortis?


BTW - the shadow companion IMC was a teenager met on the Plane of Shadow - the PC stole a gem from her and she came looking for it. I tend to give the benefit of doubt to the player because keeping a 7hd companion at 16th level is tricky, she has come close to destruction several times.

 

[Aluvial]

So another question is how many HD does the companion have?

the SRD:

Every third level gained by the shadowdancer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to her shadow companion.

The book mentions the companion has 6 HD at 9th level, but since it starts with 3hd (mm)
and gains +2 at 6th and +2 at 9th = it should have at least 7 HD. (used IMC)
If the bonuses are calculated from total level (???)then it would have 3+2+2+2 = 9hd making it effectivly a greater shadow. (so does it gain the 1d8 str drain?)

Can shadows take improved natural attack for higher Str drain?
or is there a similar ability in Liber Mortis?

BTW - the shadow companion IMC was a teenager met on the Plane of Shadow - the PC stole a gem from her and she came looking for it. I tend to give the benefit of doubt to the player because keeping a 7hd companion at 16th level is tricky, she has come close to destruction several times.

I like to know the answer to these questions, so I'm reviving this from the vaults...

If you get a shadow at 9 HD for the shadow dancer, 12th level, can you then use the advanced shadow stats?

Can you count other levels in for determining the shadows HD?

Aluvial

 

[ElectricDragon]

Because of the relative level differences between the shadow and other party members (mainly the cleric) I would not encourage anyone to try turning my shadow. Look at the description again: Immune to turning, rebuking, and commanding. It says nothing at all about being immune to destroying. If the cleric's level equals or exceeds two times the shadow's HD, the shadow is destroyed if the turning damage result is high enough.

IMC it is a shadow no matter what HD it has. No greater shadows here. This is not an advanced monster but rather a special cohort/companion/pet. If the shadow improves enough to gain another feat, the player chooses which feat it gains.

IMHO I don't think Improved Natural Attack would work for an incorporeal touch attack. The attack doesn't actually do damage at all; so what would be increased "as if its size had increased by one category"? Its connection to the negative energy plane? Are there any incorporeal creatures in RAW out there that have taken this feat?

The shadowdancer IMC summoned his shadow while he was in a desecrated area and therefore gained +1hp/HD for his companion; but this bonus did not apply to later-gained HD.

Ciao
Dave

Edit: 12th level shadowdancer is epic level. Ask your DM. IMC the answer would be no.