Shapechange - Too powerful?

[Will]

So a druid player is happily unleashing the might and fury of this 9th level spell.

Granted, I'm of the opinion that Wild Shape is too powerful to begin with, but Shapechange is just making my jaw drop.

He could be an iron golem, a marut, a balor, marilith, ghost, dragons, titans, etc. etc. etc. And swap quickly between them.

Sure, some forms (black pudding! HA!) can't use equipment, but many can.

Am I nuts, or is the ability to become immune to spells (golem), tremendously strong (nightwalker, titan, etc.), have DR tailored to a wide variety of situations, natural armor, and various combinations of these abilities _way_ beyond even a 9th level spell's power?

Combine this with decent equipment (belt of giant strength, amulet of natural armor, amulet of health), and the druid becomes significantly stronger than just about any fighter or barbarian I've ever seen.

Hmmmm. Maybe fighters with one-shot items of Shapechange. Might make an interesting opponent.

Even a wizard with Shapechange is likely to be damn formidable.

Of course, we are fairly new to high level D&D, so perhaps I'm just not used to the power scale of 9th level spells.

Thoughts?

 

[reiella]

9th level spells are that.

Remember that SLAs don't get transfered over.

I didn't realize that undead/outsiders were allowed by Shapechange.

Honestly, the worst potential is changing yourself into a gnat/flea, flying inside someone's mouth, and then changing to a Colossal creature...

 

[Nightfall]

Will,

If he's getting out of line, sick a few Purivusits(sp) on him. That ought make him less cocky.

 

[Will]

Shapechange has no type limitations. And yeah, spell-like effects don't get transferred.

But spell immunity (golems) really bugs me. Being tough _and_ immune to (most) spells?? Man. Marilith (6 attacks at full attack bonus) is a fun one, too.

What's a Purivusit, Nightfall?

Of course, if the group feels shapechange is reasonable, wait until they fight some Fighters and Monks who make use of one-shot Shapechange items.

 

[hong]

A lot of 9th level spells are overpowered, or require paragraphs of verbiage to make reasonable. They're basically plot devices in a convenient, bite-sized package: wish, miracle, gate, shapechange, true res, astral projection, soul bind, teleport circle, disjunction, etc. The simplest solution is to drop them all from your campaign. High-level casters can still use 9th level slots for metamagiced versions of 8th or lower spells.

Of course, if your campaign is already in progress, it's probably too late to do this. In which case, spellcasters with multiple greater dispellings might be a way of keeping the druid (and any other character who relies on tons of buffs) in check.

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I suggest dropping the text where it reads "You gain all EX and SU abilities of the creature". Losing SLAs isn't a huge deal, because the only core race with them is the gnome, and they only get cantrips. (NOOOOOOOOO!!!! MY GHOST SOUND!!!!!!!!)

Shapechange still is plety powerful if you drop EX and SU abilities. I would really like to keep EX abilities, but as long as regeneration is an EX ability, they need to be dropped. (I'm considering changing regeneration to SU instead, and just dropping SU abilities from chapechange spell.)

But when you get to the point where things removed from the body don't revert back to their forms, it opens up the window for abuse. (Hint . . . chronotryms have adamantine feathers, if you can handle being bald when you change back, then you could make a huge profit.)

 

[Nightfall]

What's a Purivusit, Nightfall?

I guess you didn't work on Player's Guide to Clerics and Druids.

Right firstly I misspelled it. It's Pursuivant. They are dedicated hunters of the Titans. Course no where does it say they could be wrong about such things.

 

[EricNoah]

Sorcerer in our group is gonna take it -- and boy, do we need it! Our DM pulls no punches and expects us to do likewise. We're expecting it to help us out in a wide variety of situations, but I don't think combat is going to be the main use most of the time...

 

[Will]

Someone elsewhere pointed out that while golems are immune to most spells, that also includes beneficial spells. ooh yeah.

They were worrying me, since most equipment would be usable by a humanoid golem.

 

[James McMurray]

Shapechange is overpowered. It was nice in 3.0, but 3.5 added (Su) abilities to the mix, which sends it way over the top.

Will: Golem immunity is treated as spell resistance. That means it doesn't affect that caster's own spells, so it won't interfere with any buffs. It will cause troubles when trying to heal, but that can be changed with a free action to shift to another form temporarily. Also, be sure that whatever form he turns into can speak when he tries to cast a spell. Almost all golems are voieless and thus can't cast spells with erbal components.

In my campaign I require the characters to have knowledge of the creature (attanable by the Knowledge skill or in game study over time). I've also removed (Su) abilities. It leaves it as a nice spell, but it isn't a game breaker anymore.