Shhh! No verbal spells aloud.

[Darklone]

At first: Most wizards have SEVERAL spells prepared silently. Second: Craft wands that have no command words but BUTTONS.

 

[Forrester]

Okay, here's the situation.

The PCs are basicly in the climactic fight of the campaign, dealing with a powerful wizard. The wizard had several metamagic feats (Empower, Extend, Sicken), but the cleric hit him with a Silence spell. He rolled a 1.

Did the cleric hit HIM with a Silence spell, or just cast a Silence spell in the air close to him?

My understanding of the rules is that one does not get a saving throw in the latter situation, no? (Yes, this makes readied Silence spells very cheaty . . . and perhaps broken enough that a House Rule saying that one gets a Will save regardless is in order.)

But if you give a Will save for just being in the area, would you get a Will save when *walking* into a Silence 15' radius area, and trying to cast a spell from inside?

 

[AuraSeer]

Re: Re: Shhh! No verbal spells aloud.

Did the cleric hit HIM with a Silence spell, or just cast a Silence spell in the air close to him?

My understanding of the rules is that one does not get a saving throw in the latter situation, no? (Yes, this makes readied Silence spells very cheaty . . . and perhaps broken enough that a House Rule saying that one gets a Will save regardless is in order.)

Your interpretation is correct. If the spell's target is an unattended object or a point in space, no saving throw or SR is allowed.

My house rule for readied Silence is to give the victim a Spellcraft check to realize that he's about to be quieted, and then a Concentration check to see if he finishes his casting in time. I peg the DC as for "distracted by nondamaging spell" (see the Concentration skill description). This does make Silence far less useful as a readied action, because the check should be easy for any decent spellcaster.

But if you give a Will save for just being in the area, would you get a Will save when *walking* into a Silence 15' radius area, and trying to cast a spell from inside?

No Will save is allowed, but I've got a house rule for this too. I allow a Listen check (DC 20) to realize that you're about to step into the area of a Silence. Succeeding means you realize that there's no sound from that direction, and you can avoid entering that space if you wish. However, you know only about that square-- you don't immediately know the boundaries of the entire spell effect.

[edited for coding

 

[Gaiden]

Xarlen,

If I found out one of my DM's did what you are trying to do I would leave the game.

 

[Forrester]

Re: Re: Re: Shhh! No verbal spells aloud.

My house rule for readied Silence is to give the victim a Spellcraft check to realize that he's about to be quieted, and then a Concentration check to see if he finishes his casting in time. I peg the DC as for "distracted by nondamaging spell" (see the Concentration skill description). This does make Silence far less useful as a readied action, because the check should be easy for any decent spellcaster.

It's not a bad House rule, but I think it causes problems at higher levels, potentially. A caster with Still Spell and Silent Spell really isn't giving much of a sign that he's casting anything, and so most house rule that Spellcraft checks to detect their spells are pretty tough. IF you go by that, then one could prepare a bunch of meta-magicked 4th level Silence spells that can counter things automatically right and left.

Of course, you could argue that if the caster is putting that much effort into it (taking two meta-magick feats, memorizing that many silence spells per day), then they deserve to kick some butt.

 

[AuraSeer]

Forrester, my house rule actually makes things harder for the caster of Silence. If you don't allow the victim some way to avoid the effect, Silence becomes the universal counterspell, automatically foiling anything with a V component. And it's a level lower than Dispel Magic, which requires a caster level check.

 

[Forrester]

Forrester, my house rule actually makes things harder for the caster of Silence. If you don't allow the victim some way to avoid the effect, Silence becomes the universal counterspell, automatically foiling anything with a V component. And it's a level lower than Dispel Magic, which requires a caster level check.

Oh, I know it makes it harder, my point is just that it may not make it hard enough -- that in a high-level campaign, Still Silent Silence spells may not be Spellcraftable by the main spellcaster, and thus would work quite well as 4th level counterspells.

Also not sure if your solution works against, say, wands of Silence (can you Spellcraft a wand?). But it's at least a good attempt, if not the perfect solution. (Or maybe it is).

I think in my campaign I'm just going to make it so that for readied Silence spells, the main caster gets a Will save to squeak out that last word or two.

 

[Xarlen]

Re: Re: Shhh! No verbal spells aloud.

Did the cleric hit HIM with a Silence spell, or just cast a Silence spell in the air close to him?

My understanding of the rules is that one does not get a saving throw in the latter situation, no? (Yes, this makes readied Silence spells very cheaty . . . and perhaps broken enough that a House Rule saying that one gets a Will save regardless is in order.)

But if you give a Will save for just being in the area, would you get a Will save when *walking* into a Silence 15' radius area, and trying to cast a spell from inside?

He shot the silence at the wizard, centering it ON the wizard. I made sure of this beforehand.

Thank you for the information Gaiden, but I can't exactly use that.

I'm trying to make this fight, y'know, Climactic? Not 'Oh, well, now he can't cast any spells. Now let's hit him with ranged attacks and kill him'. It's like Save Or Die.

Unfortunately the spells I'd like him to get off are too High for potions.

No wands, just scrolls.

 

[IceBear]

Couldn't he have researched some custom spells (even if it's just one's from the PHB at higher levels - you know, a 3rd level spell that's basically magic missle without Verbel components) that don't need Verbal components? You'd have to leave them in his spellbook, however, if the players should capture it.

As was pointed out, I don't know what exactly an INT18 wizard would have prepared for, but being silenced should be one of them. Some form of defensive or travel spell that doesn't need a verbal component would be one such preparation.

IceBear

 

[Xarlen]

Yeah, HE should have. I didn't. So that's why I'm asking what's out there?

I didn't give him Silence spell, so now I'm up a creek.