The only thing Tavern Brawler does is give you your proficiency bonus on the attack roll. Anyone can still make a shield bash attack as an improvised weapon, the feat doesn't give you the ability to do anything you can't already do.
D&D 5E Shield Master tweak suggestions?
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
Lehrbuch
First Post
Agree. Also, if the character happens to be proficient with a shield (e.g. a fighter), then it is reasonable to rule that her proficiency will count, anyway, if she makes an improvised shield bash attack (see discussion on Improvised Weapons at bottom of PHB pg 147).
Lehrbuch
First Post
I'm not really sure what the issue is. You can already use the Shove action to simply move the foe instead of knocking them Prone, and no-one actually forces you to bash an opponent you have knocked Prone. You can do something else, like knock another opponent Prone, or bash another standing opponent, or give you opponent time to think things through and surrender, or wait for your opponent to stand up again, etc.
For me, this seems pretty much perfect. My honourable character with Shield Master can choose to not knock opponents Prone (even though she could), or she can chose to not bash Prone opponents (even though she could). Either way there is a cost to acting with honour, and, of course, she can always in fact act dishonourably and bash the Prone opponent anyway (but feel guilty about doing it). Both (a cost to acting honourably, and the option to guiltily, act dishonourably, anyway) create great opportunities for role-playing.
You can make an improvised weapon attack with the shield now, it just counts as one of your attacks.
I think the reason they didn't give it an attack option, or give anyone a shield bash attack is because shields were made to block attacks, nothing more. Sure you can hit someone with your shield, but are you really hitting the them hard enough to cause actual damage? I mean think about it, 2 people in heavy armor with a weapon and shield really aren't going to get much off with their shield besides a push. We aren't Captain America, we aren't throwing the shield down the hallway, ricocheting off of bad guys and having it fly back.
They are big and bulky and depending on what they are made out of, they are either heavy, or not sturdy. I think WotC had that in mind when they did this edition of D&D. As a DM, I wouldn't allow a player to do more than 1pt of damage with a shield, if they chose a foolish endeavor of trying to hit someone with it for damage, unless he put a dagger sized spike on it. Then I'd allow 1d4, no strength bonus.
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Mouseferatu
Hero
Striking with the shield was actually quite common in the fighting arts of many cultures. They weren't (or at least weren't all) purely instruments of defense.
I'm not saying it's not used, I'm just saying, they aren't very damaging.
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FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Only because it's a d4 attack with a heavy weapon and thus eligible for GWM synergies (d4+15). If it were just a straight-up d4+Str attack it wouldn't get nearly so much buzz.
Mouseferatu
Hero
They were, though. Done right, it was just as effective as a war-club or mace or the like.
But we're getting a bit far afield from the main discussion, here.
Lehrbuch
First Post
Yes. It's a well balanced and maneovreable slab of solid with edges; plenty of scope for effectiveness.
C.f. riot police.
Lehrbuch
First Post
Even if a combatant is wearing heavy armour, catching the edge of a shield in the face, or in a joint, is bad news. Especially, as it is liable to be a surprise.
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