Shield Other Cheese

[Nail]

"Strengths" might just as easily apply to CL.

 

[Deset Gled]

This effectively TRIPPLES the HP of both the Fighter and the Rogue. Did I miss something or should I just congradulate them for their cleverness.

Rules aside, I think this tactic is pretty balanced, assuming your DM is relatively strict when it comes to a few points.

The fact that it takes three rounds to set this up means its only usefull when you have time to plan ahead. Your clerics have a lot better things to do on the first three rounds of an ambush. Note that the range of Shield Other is close, so you're party is just begging for AoO spells like fireball to take them down (and with the clerics taking in damage from other characters and themselves, they won't last long). The fact that Shield Other has a relatively costly component (50 gp worth of rings) will add up over time as long as the DM keeps track of such things. Using scrolls as you mentioned adds to the cost and helps limit the duration. Also, remember that the spell requires that the targets of the spell don platinum rings (the material component), so you can't decide to change the target of the spell on a whim, and cannot easily re-cast it if you face a dispel. Finally, consider that small amounts of damage spread over multiple characters is actually more expensive to heal than one character with a large amount of damage. The tactic will make your healing less efficient in the long run.

Of course, many of these factors are campaign dependent. If the DM doesn't keep track of the 50 gp rings or number of scrolls the characters carry, it makes the whole process much easier. Also, if the party has a source of infinite healing (like an infinite wand, various items from the MIC, or a cleric with the reserve healing feat), this tactic may actually make healing much easier.

 

[Darklone]

Deset Gled:
- the platinum rings are foci, not used up during casting.
- duration of the spell is at least 3 hours, so except for ambush situations the PCs will usually have them.

The other points are pretty valid, see the cost of wands above...

 

[Deset Gled]

Deset Gled:
- the platinum rings are foci, not used up during casting.

Good point. Using a scroll also means that the focus is not needed (which is a loophole allowing you cast it without giving someone a ring first).

- duration of the spell is at least 3 hours, so except for ambush situations the PCs will usually have them.

Personally, I find a 3 hour time range kind of annoying to deal with some times. Its long enough that you know it will last through a couple of fights on a dungeon crawl, but short enough that you don't know if it will last through random encounters while travelling through a forest. With a 3 hour time range, you have to decide if you want to spend the resources to keep it up all day (which are considerable), or try and conserve it (and risk being attacked). As the characters go up in level, the spells they cast themselves will become more useful, but the ones from scrolls won't.

Overall, I see the range as being a bigger limitation than the duration.

 

[Infiniti2000]

"Strengths" might just as easily apply to CL.

I'm not sure it would logically follow that the 'best one' to apply has the higher CL when the CL is completely irrelevant to the effect on the target. This is why I don't think that strengths, for this particular situation, applies to CL. It might, say, for a magic vestment but then the strength would be the additional AC bonus, not exactly the CL.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not sure it would logically follow that the 'best one' to apply has the higher CL when the CL is completely irrelevant to the effect on the target.

There is certainly precedent for CL determining relative strength/weakness of spells, regardless of whether the CL alters the effect on the target:
For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks.

Start with the highest CL; continue with progressively weaker spells.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

There is certainly precedent for CL determining relative strength/weakness of spells, regardless of whether the CL alters the effect on the target

Well, sure, but remember that the section we are concerned with is discussing the combining of magical effects. While CL is important for dispelling, that will never play a part in the combining of those effects. Let's say, for example, that one of the shield others is somehow from an Su effect. I'm not sure how or this is an invalid straw man, but it would show how CL is irrelevant even more so.

 

[Thanee]

And a lot of platinum rings!

And think of all the trouble it can cause, if people think all those pairs of rings are engagement rings...

Though I wonder if the same platinum ring can be used for several castings of Shield other.

Yes, because it's a focus.

Bye
Thanee

 

[darthkilmor]

1st: The 2 clerics cast Shield Other on eachother. This effectively pools their HP.
2nd: Each cleric uses a scroll to cast Shield Other on the Fighter.
3rd: Each cleric uses a scroll to cast Shield Other on the Rogue.

If you were inclined to let this be a valid tactic, I believe the breakdown would be:
Fighter takes X damage.
First spell on fighter: X is divided by two, cleric A takes X/2, fighter takes X/2.
Second spell on figher: X/2 is divided by two, fighter takes X/4, cleric B takes X/4.
Spell on cleric A: X/2 is divided by two, Cleric A takes X/4, cleric B takes X/4. (ignore recursion).
Spell on cleric B: X/4 is divided by two, Cleric B takes X/8 , cleric A takes X/8. (ignore recusrion).

End Result: Fighter takes 1/4(25%) damage. Each Cleric takes 3/8(37.5%) damage.
To prevent too much cheese, Always Round up.

So say the fighter takes a hit of 6 points. fighter takes 2(1.5 rounded up), each cleric takes 3(2.25 rounded up). 8 total.

The players don't know how much damage the original attack did, (to prevent "Hey, that totals up more than 6!") They just know their tactic is mostly working out. If you roll your dice in plain view, simply say: "Magic is very mysterious. And bad at math."

 

[Nail]

Well, sure, but remember that the section we are concerned with is discussing the combining of magical effects.

I don't understand how or why you are making this distinction.

There are two magical effects on (say) the Fighter that are the same effect, but from different sources. Only one can apply. Determine which can apply by selecting the effect with the highest CL. If there are 2 or more with the same CL, I propose that you determine the appropriate one randomly.

In any event, 2 Or more) Shield Other spells on the same target do not both affect that target. Only one applies, the other is overlapped.