D&D 5E Short rest benefits during declared long rest?

[vlysses]

Sorry if it has been covered elsewhere, but I really could not find an answer to this:

So we lay our heads to rest after a hard days of adventuring. 3 hours into what is supposed to be a long rest we get attacked by some freaking imps.

Here is the question: having gone to bed 3 hours before (those on guard at the time of the attack had already 2 hours of sleep, others just went to sleep after the first 2 hour shift), in a pretty bad state hit point wise, can we take advantage of the short rest HP boost with the benefit of hindsight?Or is it just a case of bad luck, or do we have to declare a few hours of short rest (to at least get some HP back) and convert the sum of the short rest into a long one?

How do you guys play this?

Any suggestions much appreciated.

V

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I'd allow any ability that recharges on a short rest to be recovered, but no HP recovery. You must spend hit dice to recover HP during a short rest, and I wouldn't allow players do spend them in response to an attack during their long rest.

 

[MarkB]

One problem with doing so is that a long rest only restores half your hit dice. So, for instance, if your character has 8 hit dice and has spent 4 of them healing up, he'll wake up at full hit points and hit dice - but if you chose to spend extra hit dice to recover hit points as part of a short rest, you wouldn't get back any of those extra hit dice. That doesn't seem like the sort of choice one could make retroactively.

On the other hand, if a party is camping in a dangerous area, I'd have no problem with them starting out taking a short rest for an hour, gaining its benefits, and then continuing to rest for a further 7 hours to gain the benefits of a long rest.

 

[fjw70]

Since rest healing mechanics are strictly a meta-game mechanic and not something the PCs do in world to make it happen then I would allow a retroactive decision to spend HD when a long rest is interrupted.

 

[Herr der Qual]

I would actually allow them the full benefits of a short rest. The only actual difference between a long and short rest is duration, therefore, they had achieved a short rest, I'd have them roll any hit die they want to roll before initiative. They were planning on a long rest, but they also clearly expected danger, which means they would be taking any measures available to them to be prepared for trouble, which includes regaining health.

 

[Henry]

Rules as written its kind of ambiguous but as a DM I would have allowed retroactive healing through hit dice, but specified that you dont get those back at the end of the long rest.

 

[Uller]

I'd allow the benefits of a short rest to kick in before the encounter starts. Two reasons:

1) I assume the characters (who are professional adventurers) have the good sense to tend wounds, maintain gear and such before starting their night's rest. I make this assumption a lot at my table...On a long overland journey through hostile territory, I assume some of the PCs (not the players) know how to plan, pack and ration. I don't care where they stow the gear they are most likely to need in a fight vs what might be on the pack animals, etc. My players are not hikers or infantrymen. But the PCs are.

2) As a DM, I want my players to be able to enjoy the kewl stuff their characters can do. I want them to have opportunities to recharge. I find that if I'm not lenient with this, then ki points and spell slots, etc don't get used nearly as much and while that makes the game more challenging, I find it also makes it less fun.

So if we have an encounter part way into a long rest, before I start to describe the encounter I'll tell them they've had the benefit of a short rest and can spend any HD they want and gain any other benefits of a short rest. There should be a difference between an encounter starting 20 minutes into their rest and one starting 4 hours in, no?

 

[Uller]

One problem with doing so is that a long rest only restores half your hit dice. So, for instance, if your character has 8 hit dice and has spent 4 of them healing up, he'll wake up at full hit points and hit dice - but if you chose to spend extra hit dice to recover hit points as part of a short rest, you wouldn't get back any of those extra hit dice. That doesn't seem like the sort of choice one could make retroactively.

I agree. But I think the problem is a metagame one (disassociated mechanic comes to mind). Why would a PC heal BETTER by not tending his wounds before sleeping? If the rule were written sensibly it would say before you can take a long rest, you must spend HD until you run out or reach your max hp, then gain back up to half your HD and all remaining missing hp. But in most cases, that would just slow the game down...so (at least for me) allowing a retroactive decision to spend some HD makes more sense. (also it makes a nice simulation of your rest being less effective since it was interrupted)

 

[Cernor]

I wouldn't allow retroactive healing, as IMO that drastically reduces the threat the ambush poses. Incidentally, in my game a long rest doesn't automatically restore HP, which makes night ambushes that much scarier for the party. Instead of being a speedbump at best (maybe someone will drop to 0 HP, but they'll fully heal afterwards anyway), they're just as difficult as any other encounter... With the added bonus of happening when the party's already weakened.

 

[vlysses]

Thanks for all the replies - there is plenty we can work with in them