D&D (2024) How long should a Short rest be in 5E(2024)?

[TheSword]

Cubicle 7 have recently released a journeys book for 5e as well it’s worth noting.

 

[TheSword]

I really liked the concept of safe havens for long rests with other resting giving you short rests. Arriving at journey with some impact from the way you travelled and what you did along the journey.

Longer rests please not shorter.

Otherwise you might as well just put powers on recharges. I’m not adverse to removing daily powers. WFRP does it very well. I just think it wouldn’t be D&D if we did that.

 

[Ondath]

I really liked the concept of safe havens for long rests with other resting giving you short rests. Arriving at journey with some impact from the way you travelled and what you did along the journey.

Longer rests please not shorter.

Otherwise you might as well just put powers on recharges. I’m not adverse to removing daily powers. WFRP does it very well. I just think it wouldn’t be D&D if we did that.

Definitely agreed on longer rests. Since most 5E tables tend to have 1-2 big setpiece encounters and nothing else, I think making rests longer helps return some encounter balance. At least for journeys. I am kinda disappointed Level Up didn't go the full AiME way and disallow long rests, instead limiting long rests only in terms of fatigue/strife recovery. But I think it isn't too difficult to houserule it over.

 

[Horwath]

Definitely agreed on longer rests. Since most 5E tables tend to have 1-2 big setpiece encounters and nothing else, I think making rests longer helps return some encounter balance. At least for journeys. I am kinda disappointed Level Up didn't go the full AiME way and disallow long rests, instead limiting long rests only in terms of fatigue/strife recovery. But I think it isn't too difficult to houserule it over.

If an encounter is not Deadly+ what is the point of having it?

 

[Ondath]

If an encounter is not Deadly+ what is the point of having it?

I mean, there are so many reasons why you'd like to have an encounter that isn't a life and death struggle at every opportunity.

Perhaps the party just received a new power-up, and you want them to feel powerful by curbstomping on foes that gave them a hard time before. So you make an easy encounter.

Perhaps the combat itself isn't to the death, but is only a moderate challenge that also includes secondary win conditions that they must secure (sure, you could make quick work of the demons because it's a Moderate encounter, but they will kill the baby for their abyssal ritual in two rounds, so what really matters isn't the difficulty of combat, but achieving the secondary goal).

Perhaps the challenge doesn't lie in defeating one deadly setpiece encounter, but going through a gauntlet of successive, moderately difficult encounters where effective management of resources and knowing when to use a limited ability and when to forego it matters more?

I am a bit baffled by this question. There are so many obvious reasons why you wouldn't want to have deadly fights all the time.

 

[zedturtle]

I mean, there are so many reasons why you'd like to have an encounter that isn't a life and death struggle at every opportunity.

Perhaps the party just received a new power-up, and you want them to feel powerful by curbstomping on foes that gave them a hard time before. So you make an easy encounter.

Perhaps the combat itself isn't to the death, but is only a moderate challenge that also includes secondary win conditions that they must secure (sure, you could make quick work of the demons because it's a Moderate encounter, but they will kill the baby for their abyssal ritual in two rounds, so what really matters isn't the difficulty of combat, but achieving the secondary goal).

Perhaps the challenge doesn't lie in defeating one deadly setpiece encounter, but going through a gauntlet of successive, moderately difficult encounters where effective management of resources and knowing when to use a limited ability and when to forego it matters more?

I am a bit baffled by this question. There are so many obvious reasons why you wouldn't want to have deadly fights all the time.

Yeah. I'm hoping this was tongue-firmly-in-cheek, otherwise I fear for their group.

Cubicle 7 have recently released a journeys book for 5e as well it’s worth noting.

That takes me back! During that awkward transition between C7 and FL. Everything's copacetic now, and I'll visit all my C7 friends at their booth at least once next month and run my annual ME game for some of them, but it hasn't always been perfectly smooth sailing.

 

[tetrasodium]

I mean, there are so many reasons why you'd like to have an encounter that isn't a life and death struggle at every opportunity.

Perhaps the party just received a new power-up, and you want them to feel powerful by curbstomping on foes that gave them a hard time before. So you make an easy encounter.

Perhaps the combat itself isn't to the death, but is only a moderate challenge that also includes secondary win conditions that they must secure (sure, you could make quick work of the demons because it's a Moderate encounter, but they will kill the baby for their abyssal ritual in two rounds, so what really matters isn't the difficulty of combat, but achieving the secondary goal).

Perhaps the challenge doesn't lie in defeating one deadly setpiece encounter, but going through a gauntlet of successive, moderately difficult encounters where effective management of resources and knowing when to use a limited ability and when to forego it matters more?

I am a bit baffled by this question. There are so many obvious reasons why you wouldn't want to have deadly fights all the time.

5e kinda makes efforts to ensure that scenario doesn't work mechanically without invoking fiat.

Healing word/breeze 1hp LoH spontaneous casting of cure spells in any unused slot from prep list and so on combines with death saves too ensure that the demons are no real threat to anyone. That remains true pretty much right up to where they are such a threat that even fighting them in the first place would be a slaughter.

Movement has been trivialized to the point where it's effectively not that different from nightcrawler's teleportation. Players can run circles around an opponent without risk. Players can even swing move swing move etc in a single attack even if each swing is with a different weapon. Players don't even need to weigh the pros and cons of moving their full move speed at cost of effectiveness or only moving part but having full effectiveness (ie3.5 attack, full attack, 5foot step, full defense, AoO instead of OAs, etc)

Those scenarios simply don't work until it looks like a crowded DMV lobby/subway car when tactical grid combat is trying to mimic the "tactical" choices of an fps like 5e does. If you have that many demons though the choice is made impossible.

 

[mamba]

If an encounter is not Deadly+ what is the point of having it?

atmosphere, build up, providing information without just outright narrating it, slowly exhausting the party, … there are plenty of options

 

[Ondath]

5e kinda makes efforts to ensure that scenario doesn't work mechanically without invoking fiat.

Healing word/breeze 1hp LoH spontaneous casting of cure spells in any unused slot from prep list and so on combines with death saves too ensure that the demons are no real threat to anyone. That remains true pretty much right up to where they are such a threat that even fighting them in the first place would be a slaughter.

Movement has been trivialized to the point where it's effectively not that different from nightcrawler's teleportation. Players can run circles around an opponent without risk. Players can even swing move swing move etc in a single attack even if each swing is with a different weapon. Players don't even need to weigh the pros and cons of moving their full move speed at cost of effectiveness or only moving part but having full effectiveness (ie3.5 attack, full attack, 5foot step, full defense, AoO instead of OAs, etc)

Those scenarios simply don't work until it looks like a crowded DMV lobby/subway car when tactical grid combat is trying to mimic the "tactical" choices of an fps like 5e does. If you have that many demons though the choice is made impossible.

Let's agree to disagree. I did run encounters with alternative win conditions and hardly ran into the troubles that you described.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Players can even swing move swing move etc in a single attack even if each swing is with a different weapon. Players don't even need to weigh the pros and cons of moving their full move speed at cost of effectiveness or only moving part but having full effectiveness (ie3.5 attack, full attack, 5foot step, full defense, AoO instead of OAs, etc)

This is one thing I will give 5e credit for; making combat way more kinetic.