D&D 5E (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Hussar]

That's not really an objective measure, though. Fire breath is a negative for me. I don't like playing a PC with a breath weapon. I'd also rather have two more proficiencies than tremor sense. Flight for a PC is usually wings, and I hate wings on a PC as well. If it were some sort of magical flight that would be different. Spells are hit or miss, depending on what the spells are and what class I am playing. Sometimes I will prefer the spells, other times the proficiencies.

I find them plenty interesting. You don't. That's cool. We all like different things.

But “I like it” is not a metric that matters to anyone but you. We’re talking about having mechanics which define a race against other races. Whether or not you happen to like the differences is largely irrelevant.

 

[Maxperson]

But “I like it” is not a metric that matters to anyone but you. We’re talking about having mechanics which define a race against other races. Whether or not you happen to like the differences is largely irrelevant.

"I like it" and "I don't like it" are all that are relevant. If many more "like it," it should be there no matter what the mechanics are. There's no objective measure of which races should stay or go. Many more like half-elves than don't.

 

[Hussar]

"I like it" and "I don't like it" are all that are relevant. If many more "like it," it should be there no matter what the mechanics are. There's no objective measure of which races should stay or go. Many more like half-elves than don't.

But half elves aren’t gone. They are right there in the 2024 phb. Right in black and white.

So what’s the problem?

 

[DEFCON 1]

While I would agree that people like hard tangible abilities I would argue there is significant difference between a breath weapon and innate spells to the things @DEFCON 1 was mentioning, given what they highlighted were narrative fiat abilities, alot of people vehemently despised those background abilities they held up as examples because they ‘just happened’, I find it highly unrealistic the idea that just because i and the person i am talking to are both elves they’re innately inclined to help me out, as a human I’ve met alot of other humans and asked them for favours, i wish I had a fraction of the success they’re suggesting is meant to be present between members of the same species. That’s not what I would expect to be a ‘species ability’, species abilities I would mostly expect to be extensions of biological abilities.

I would suggest you are perhaps making the wrong analogy in this case.

Of course we can't get all other humans to listen to us, because there is only one human species in real life-- which is very different than within D&D. In D&D there are dozens upon dozens of different species, meaning that you would only get to get things done with a small subset of all those sentient people.

So the analogy is more like if you were a member of some group within humanity-- occupational, racial, national, gendered, religious, or any other subset... and more often than not someone within that group would give you information or assistance when asked. If you were a member of the Teamsters Union and you found another member of the Teamster's Union and asked them to give you a hand with something (especially when directly related to Teamster activities)... why would the DM even give us the chance that your Teamster friend would say 'No' on some of the most innocuous things by having the roll possibly fail, and thus cutting off the advancement of the story? There are hundreds of thousands of other NPCs out there who all have legitimate reasons to tell that PC 'No' on their request for assistance... why give this fellow member of some connective group the chance to do that too? What's the point of being a Teamster if you can't be assured that more often than not, fellow Teamsters are going to help you out?

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I do want it to be said though that this idea that I was just coming up with off the top of my head at the time was not meant to be universal across the entire game-- never having the players "fail". This was specifically asked of me as what I'd do for species mechanics and given the specific suggestion of elves interacting with other elves. And to be fair, I'm not even saying that this idea that elves will almost always help other elves in most regular interactions is in fact the right or best idea... but merely that this idea I feel is miles better that the piddling 4 game mechanics the game currently uses to distinguish one species from another.

People have been saying they need ways to distinguish a species as being substantively different than the other species, and apparently believe that letting Halfling re-roll 1s and Dwarves resist poison does the trick. I mean, if that's all they need then okay... they can be happy with what the game presents and use it to their heart's content. For me personally, though, I don't find those "game mechanics" meaningful in any way. So usually when I'm DMing I just see who these PCs are and what they've done and then let them do the stuff they are looking to do based upon that status-- and not bothering to use mechanics to first check if it "works" or not. Because to me... a failed check is the "No" to improv's "Yes, And..." It stops the story in its tracks. Which occasionally is fine... especially when we're talking about really, really important events that might require a lot of effort to succeed on-- roadblocks can create drama and drama makes eventual success have more meaning... but for most rudimentary action that the PCs do? Keep the game moving. Advance the story. Let who they are and what they've done actual be meaningful. Because forcing them to use mechanics for no good reason other than "It's a game!!!" defeats the purpose of us playing an RPG rather than a board game.

Of course, this is just my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not simply having skills that is the half-elf ability. It's inherently learning more skills than races. All else being equal, a half-elf will always have more skills due to it's racial learning ability.

Yeah, now we're back to 'they're inherently smarter' and I not gonna be on board with that ever.

 

[Maxperson]

But half elves aren’t gone. They are right there in the 2024 phb. Right in black and white.

So what’s the problem?

The fact that they are gone. There is no half-elf in the 2024 PHB. If it's there(and I thought they pulled their crappy idea), it's an elf or human with pig lipstick painted on it. You can paint lipstick on a pig(elf or human) to try and make it look half-elven, but it will still be pig(elf or human).

 

[AK_Ambrian]

But half elves aren’t gone. They are right there in the 2024 phb. Right in black and white.

So what’s the problem?

Come on, don't be ridiculous. They have very obviously been intentionally removed.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The fact that they are gone. There is no half-elf in the 2024 PHB. If it's there(and I thought they pulled their crappy idea), it's an elf or human with pig lipstick painted on it. You can paint lipstick on a pig(elf or human) to try and make it look half-elven, but it will still be pig(elf or human).

And others would say that rather than your claim that the narrative of saying your character is half-elven is the "lipstick" here... it's the four stupid game mechanics that are the "lipstick".

It goes both ways.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Come on, don't be ridiculous. They have very obviously been intentionally removed.

No, only the four/five stupid game mechanics have been. The actual half-elf and half-orc concepts are still in the game.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, now we're back to 'they're inherently smarter' and I not gonna be on board with that ever.

Because all races have to be identical.

I love how people(not singling you out here) are like, "Races can't have +2 strength or intelligence, because that's superiority over other races and bad!", while at the same time being like, "We can give them powerful build instead, so that that they are are stronger than other races and not superiority, and that's good!"

The self deception involved with being okay with one and not the other is astounding. Being stronger than other races is being stronger, no matter how you represent it. +2 to to intelligence is the same as more skills, which is the same as perfect memory, which is the same as...

You can't have racial abilities of any kind that other races do not have without having the "superiority" that people are against with stat bonuses. I put the superiority in quotes, because there is no such superiority in D&D. D&D gave elves +2 dex, dwarves +2 con, etc. which made all the races equal on those grounds. The same with the other racial abilities like the extra skills vs. fire breath vs. halfling luck, etc.