D&D 5E Should 5E have Healing Surges?

[nightwalker450]

Some chance for long term affects built in would be nice. The only long term status affect 4e had were diseases. What they should have done (or look to next edition), is for some default "diseases" to be applied at certain points. My first thought, is apply it when the character falls unconscious (or when they are revived).

Type of Disease (Dependent upon defense that was attacked to drop you)
Severity (Dependent on # Failed Death Saves or # HP below 0 when revived)

Of course make it so you can only gain one of these per encounter, to prevent an absolute death spiral.

But that's just one idea, I've been thinking on.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Absolutely, and if they do I'll welcome it.

I like the surge system more than the previous editions' healing paradigms, though I see it's defects and I'm not married to it or it's particular implementation. If WotC can come up with a set of rules that has the same (IMHO) advantages (long term resource management, healing is dependant on the recipient, healing is not neccesarily divine...) I won't shed a tear for the healing surges.

Well, there can always be potentially improvements. I haven't heard ANYONE say "surges and healing exactly like 4e or else" have they? Somewhere such a person must exist, but if I look at something and say "oh, yeah, this is better" then I'd just use that.

Of course there's no guarantee it will exist, and I'd feel happy to know that such a thing is going to be in the core 5e book that I'm now being asked to buy

5e still has to compete with 4e, so there's a certain standard it will get held to. Old fashioned hit points and healing probably ain't going to make it and again if that's just not in a book I can buy then I'll most likely wait until I get it. I figure it will take a good chunk of this year to finish the 4e campaigns I run anyway.

 

[Guest 85555]

I hope they get rid of them, along with 4e powers. These just never did it for me.

 

[Mattachine]

One more than the other.

One makes narrative sense (a spellcaster heals me).

The other doesn't (I heal myself, how do I do that? err, ah, shut up, it just happens, ok?).

No, both have an in-game explanation:

1. I recover from getting smacked around through my own toughness, training, inherent magical nature, or willpower.

2. A spell healed me, even though I didn't have enough injuries to actually effect my abilities to fight, move, cast spells, etc.


Both have metagame, and both have in-game. It comes down to preferences.

 

[Mattachine]

Related to surges

By the way, I haven't seen mention of these two HS mechanics in this discussion.

1. When a character fails deaths saves and recovers (generally from magical healing, by the way), they retain the failed death saves. In other words, they have not fully recovered. A PC who nearly dies (two failed death saves) can die right away if knocked out again.


2. Healing surges are wonderful way to handle the effects of privation, disease, exhaustion, and undead attacks. Such effects can drain healing surges, and some even impose limits on regaining healing surges until the cause is removed. I love the mechanic of an undead draining your vitality (represented by healing surges), without having all bookkeeping of ability drain or the insanity of actual level drain.

 

[KarinsDad]

Both have metagame, and both have in-game. It comes down to preferences.

One in-game is lame.

 

[nightwyrm]

Bit of a thread hop:

but stripping away the terminology, the way I interpret the HS question as about whether there should be two hp "tracks", one for short term and one for the day where you can fill up the short term track with the daily track. Or should there be only one track.

 

[Kingreaper]

One in-game is lame.

And the other one is: "I grit my teeth and get back up" ;-p

 

[BryonD]

He didn't, he just overcame them temporarily. The surges are still gone, representing the fact he's actually slightly wounded.

Wrong. All the effects of the prior wounds are gone. Yes, his ability to make NEW wounds instantly go away is now depleted and THAT is a change. But that is a hugely and fundamentally different change.

If I shoot him twice in a row, he's a goner. If I shoot him, then he gets a chance to rest, then I shoot him again, he's not a goner.

And in the 3E scenario, because he has not recovered any HP, if you shoot him ONCE more, he is a goner.

Why? Because HP are, in this scenario, representing SHOCK. And shock is the thing that HP in D&D most accurately simulate.

Wrong. Now, this one actually may be right FOR YOU. But it isn't remotely a truth. That is beauty of HP is that they allow a very wide range of narrative liberty to describe damage as anything from a real wound that the hero can just overcome, to cuts and bruises, to pure spent karma. And that is the toll of surges, they force the hand of the narrative down to things like just shock.

So do all his hp!

It's an issue with 4e, not an issue with surges. It's in no way necessary to the concept of surges that they come back every night.

I mean, I said as much in the post you were replying to, not sure how you managed to miss it.

WRONG

I agree that D&D characters recover vastly faster than real people. But a gravely wounded fighter alone in the woods will need a week or more to recover in 3E and one night in 4E.

 

[BryonD]

By the way, I haven't seen mention of these two HS mechanics in this discussion.

1. When a character fails deaths saves and recovers (generally from magical healing, by the way), they retain the failed death saves. In other words, they have not fully recovered. A PC who nearly dies (two failed death saves) can die right away if knocked out again.


2. Healing surges are wonderful way to handle the effects of privation, disease, exhaustion, and undead attacks. Such effects can drain healing surges, and some even impose limits on regaining healing surges until the cause is removed. I love the mechanic of an undead draining your vitality (represented by healing surges), without having all bookkeeping of ability drain or the insanity of actual level drain.

Do you realize that both of these examples require that you accept the concept of surges in the first place?