D&D 5E Should 5E have Healing Surges?

[Fede]

One of the most intense "group moments" is when one character rescues another by healing him. 4e has largely taken that away with the introduction of healing surges.

Now it's "everyone surges for himself".

All that to "liberate" the Cleric so that he can now be just like the Wizard?!

Sorry, I don't get it. The class distinctions in 4e might make sense if you are out for a tabeltop battle game but not for an adventure game and healing surges play a big role in this.

So I just say NO to healing surges.

No, it doesn't work like that. The only way to use a surge by your own in combat (and I'm assuming you mean in combat, because you said "rescue"), is by using a second wind, that's only once per encounter and it uses your standard action for that turn.

The cleric is still needed to trigger other healing surges (and he also provides additional healing), only now the healer role is also available to other classes and it doesn't relegate the cleric to being a healbot.

 

[Naszir]

One of the most intense "group moments" is when one character rescues another by healing him. 4e has largely taken that away with the introduction of healing surges.

Now it's "everyone surges for himself".

All that to "liberate" the Cleric so that he can now be just like the Wizard?!

Sorry, I don't get it. The class distinctions in 4e might make sense if you are out for a tabeltop battle game but not for an adventure game and healing surges play a big role in this.

So I just say NO to healing surges.

You still need a Cleric the majority of the time to kick off healing surges. It's just that the cleric can do something in addition to the healing instead of it being the majority of what the class does. And there are some instances where you won't need a cleric to get some hps back. Those instances can represent a "second wind" or a "morale boost".

Not all damage is physical. However for those who do consider all damage physical then thsi doesn't work.

 

[Dausuul]

But surges were an attempt to do just that. A cleric uses a power that allows you to spend a healing surge. A healing surge is 1/4 of your hit points. So in this case the cleric uses a power on the commoner and the 5hp commoner gets 1hp back in healing. The 30hp hero gets 5hps back in healing.

Like he said: It's something he (and I) would like to see fixed, but you don't need surges to fix it. To engage in a bit of hyperbole, you could make a big dent in world population growth by starting a nuclear war. That doesn't mean nuclear war is a desirable solution to overpopulation.

(No, healing surges are not the equivalent of nuclear war. I'm just using an extreme example to demonstrate where the "this problem needs fixing, healing surges fix it, so why you hatin' on healing surges?" logic fails.)

 

[OpsKT]

I voted different, because I like the idea of a second wind, but not the healing surges.

I'd like to see Second Wind for everyone like in Star Wars Saga, but once a day. But get rid of the surges.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

One of the most intense "group moments" is when one character rescues another by healing him. 4e has largely taken that away with the introduction of healing surges.

Now it's "everyone surges for himself".

All that to "liberate" the Cleric so that he can now be just like the Wizard?!

Sorry, I don't get it. The class distinctions in 4e might make sense if you are out for a tabeltop battle game but not for an adventure game and healing surges play a big role in this.

So I just say NO to healing surges.

Ummmm, played much? First you have to give up your turn pretty much to use Second Wind, and you get it once per fight, so the idea that people 'just heal themselves' is A) not true since using a surge is still removing a resource, so not really healing in the classic sense, and B) so unfavorable an action to take and so limited in amount of use that it is only a band-aide, not a cure for damage.

I've had so many countless 'healing moments' in 4e it just boggles my mind how anyone could even entertain the notion that 4e goes against them. It makes them cool and coming up at fun times and fairly often (maybe even too often if anything).

There's no 'tabletop wargame' that is 4e. Play the game sometime. Heck, I just ran a whole 5 hour session the other night. There wasn't even one attack roll made, not one fight, just RP. If that's a tabletop wargame it is the damned strangest one that I ever heard of! We all sat around a table and told a story, and there was intrigue, exposition, and even danger (and yes involving PCs taking damage etc), but in point of fact no minis were even broken out.

I just don't get why you guys have to have someone running around playing that horrible abomination to all fantasy genre ever to exist, the healing battery. UGH!!!!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, I don't at all mean to imply that one of us deserves to get what he wants more than another does either. I think we're in the same boat, we just have different tastes.

 

[KarinsDad]

There's no 'tabletop wargame' that is 4e. Play the game sometime. Heck, I just ran a whole 5 hour session the other night. There wasn't even one attack roll made, not one fight, just RP. If that's a tabletop wargame it is the damned strangest one that I ever heard of! We all sat around a table and told a story, and there was intrigue, exposition, and even danger (and yes involving PCs taking damage etc), but in point of fact no minis were even broken out.

I just don't get why you guys have to have someone running around playing that horrible abomination to all fantasy genre ever to exist, the healing battery. UGH!!!!

Why do you need healing surges if your game often has 5 hour RPing sessions?

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Gotta say though, I hate healing surges. I prefer something a lot less metagamey.

But the question I have to ask pro-healing surge proponents is:

Couldn't WotC come up with a healing mechanism that is better than 3E AND is better than 4E?

What's with this game mechanics marriage that some players have with healing surges? Is the mechanic really that good? Since (in this poll) over 50% of respondents want to get rid of healing surges, shouldn't WotC be looking for something better?

 

[Agamon]

If there was a differentiation between fatigue and wounds, healing surges would be great. Regardless, I expect there will be a mod(ule) for that.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Why do you need healing surges if your game often has 5 hour RPing sessions?

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Hehe, yeah. I know. You're just such a MEAN guy!

Gotta say though, I hate healing surges. I prefer something a lot less metagamey.

But the question I have to ask pro-healing surge proponents is:

Couldn't WotC come up with a healing mechanism that is better than 3E AND is better than 4E?

What's with this game mechanics marriage that some players have with healing surges? Is the mechanic really that good? Since (in this poll) over 50% of respondents want to get rid of healing surges, shouldn't WotC be looking for something better?

I don't really disagree with you, and honestly HS per-se isn't that big a deal to me. There are just things that the healing system needs to do:

1) Allow for different types of healing that are equivalent. No "warlord's healing is crap" because that just leads to 2

2) No mandatory healing battery classes.

3) No mandatory healing potion/stick/whatever dependency. My PCs are heroes, not drug addicts.

4) Forgiving enough at some level that a player isn't effectively being discouraged from taking chances. Nobody should be saying "nah, I'll just full attack instead of sliding down the bannister, taking damage is just never worth it."

I'm thinking at this point that some kind of 'avoid damage' mechanism that can be applied to sometimes make things a bit more forgiving if a PC messes up would be fun, but I also still think a limit on healing is needed or desirable. If it is purely a limit, maybe it can be possible as strictly an on-off option, you can ignore 'surges' and just let all healing heal always and the rest of us won't. That doesn't wreck the possibility of the game working for everyone with the same modules. As for really modeling damage vs 'fatigue' I think if someone wants to do that they should be using something like a disease track. Have ALL hitpoints be 'fatigue/luck/etc' and have some rule for when you take a real wound. Maybe clerics can just 'heal' those whenever, but say a mundane healer can only do it with some time to do first aid. Again, it is something that could be ignored or tweaked for different effects.

The game though for logical reasons has to have the same amount of damage mean at least CLOSE to the same things in all styles, otherwise we can't make spells and such that work in all of them, right?

I'd be perfectly pleased if we can all get approximately what we want. TBH I personally have just never been all that bothered by most mechanics and relating them to narrative. Things are always a bit fuzzy. If a guy is 'down on reserves' in whatever way that is represented he can RP that any way he wants really. Just because you have a broken arm doesn't mean that the warlord can't still inspire you to fight at full effect for instance, he's just got you up into a right inspired state that makes up for it, for a while. That sort of thing. I think life just generally becomes a lot easier when you can go with the flow to some extent.

 

[Mattachine]

Another "metagamey" example:

Players discussing which cure wounds spells to cast on each party member to maximize the total healing effect.

The game already includes a lot of metagame elements. Cure spells and healing surges both fit that bill.