D&D 4E Should Ability Scores in 4E Be Randomly Determined?

[GlassJaw]

I'd like to see all randomness removed from character creation and advancement: point-buy for stats, set number of hit points at each level.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Couldn't all of those be easily ported to a simple Mod as Score [-5 to +5] system?

For the 2nd two, maybe. But for ability damage? I do not think it is ideal

Under the current rules, going to zero in an ability score results in helplessness, or in the case of Con damage, death. Remembering that 0 == dead is easy. But having them occur at -5 adds a bit of a math oddity. Not a big oddity, but still an oddity.

I will concede that going to a flat bonus notation would remove much of the book keeping for stat buffs and ability damage resulting from the ability bonus changing on even numbers (causing 3 ability damage to either cause a reduction in 1 point or 2 points based on the stats current value). Remembering that Death happens at -5 is easy by comparison.

I think I would prefer to keep the current stat set if a reasonable way of handling ability changes were worked out.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[GreatLemur]

I would say no. Aside from being a reasonable sacred cow, the 3d6 based stats provide a rather obvious baseline average due to the resulting bell curve.

It's a great bell curve, certainly, but it's only actually there as long as you keep rolling randomly.

Also, we currently do use more than just the resulting bonus in 3.5 edition.

- Ability Damage
- Prerequisite values for feats and prestige classes
- Bonus spells for casters

See, I'd say those uses are all pretty suspect. Doing 3 points of Strength damage to a Str score of 15 isn't effectively different from doing 2 points, and that's bad game design.

The use of odd-numbered ability scrores in prereqs and bonus scores, meanwhile, is basically a fig leaf to cover up their near-meaninglessness.

 

[delericho]

See, I'd say those uses are all pretty suspect. Doing 3 points of Strength damage to a Str score of 15 isn't effectively different from doing 2 points, and that's bad game design.

Not quite, because a character who has the Power Attach feat loses access to it (and therefore, Cleave, Great Cleave, and so forth as well). As, in fact, you note below...

The use of odd-numbered ability scrores in prereqs and bonus scores, meanwhile, is basically a fig leaf to cover up their near-meaninglessness.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

No randomness in default character generation. Randomness in game play. Simple as that.

Theres plenty of ways to make characters different from each other, both mechanically and through roleplaying that makes the need to hope that the other guy's fighter has worse stats than yours unnecessary.

Also, it makes for a more balanced game. Game designers can more accurately predict how powerful pc's will be at a given level, classes with MAD are no longer relageted to the guy who got lucky/cheated, etc.

 

[Stalker0]

Point buy should be the standard, there are plenty of ways to customize characters that don't involve the possibility of making them crappy. Rolling should be the optional rule.

 

[GreatLemur]

Yes, but it would have approximately half the granularity of the current system - for the damage aspect, especially, this is a bit bothersome.

I'm not so sure about that. The granularity in the mechanics represented by "3-18" isn't really any greater than that represented by "-4 through +4", it's just spread out. The scale streches farther, but gaining access to feat and gaining additional +1s on a d20 roll at alternating points in the scale doesn't really sound like real granularity, to me. Instead, it's like the took the same quantified value for, say, "strength", and separated different elements of it into two stages.

As for the question of ability damage (or enhancements), I can't see how it'd effect balance to just halve them. Taking 2 points of ability damage to your +3 Str is the same as taking 4 points of ability damage to your 16 Str. Best of all, this would save you from weird situations where 1 point of Str damage has no effect on your combat ability because you happen to have an odd-numbered Str score.

 

[Mercule]

I definitely want to see point buy (or some other non-random method) be the default.

I also definitely want to see the dice method as an option.

Either way, the 3-18 range is sacrosanct.

 

[GreatLemur]

Not quite, because a character who has the Power Attach feat loses access to it (and therefore, Cleave, Great Cleave, and so forth as well). As, in fact, you note below...

Sure, if you bother to keep track of all your PCs' feat prerequisites every time you hit them with some ability score damage. In actual play, though, I suspect that many a Rogue has kept swinging his dual shortswords after his Dex has dropped below 15.

 

[Midknightsun]

I vote for keeping both as an option, or multiple versions, and let the individual groups decide. Though I also think the DMG should discuss the possible effects various approaches can have on the power level of the campaign.