Level Up (A5E) Should AD&D5E remove simple/martial weapon category as exotic weapons were removed from 5E?

[Micah Sweet]

They really arent.
A mace's smaller and multiple heads make it much easier to use than a warhammer. Warhammers' heads would make fighing with them closer to using a battleaxe in my opinion.

The issue is that the warhammer and mace are given different dice.
The difference should be proficiency and properties.

Your thinking of a flail. A mace is a stick of wood with a large stone or metal head. Much like a hammer but less specifically shaped.

 

[Minigiant]

Your thinking of a flail. A mace is a stick of wood with a large stone or metal head. Much like a hammer but less specifically shaped.

No I was thinking a mace. I was stating that a hammer actually has a direction on it's head. So a hammer user has to angled their attacks and adjust their grip to hit square. Therefore a warhammer takes more training and thought to weild than a mace.

A flail is even more difficult.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No I was thinking a mace. I was stating that a hammer actually has a direction on it's head. So a hammer user has to angled their attacks and adjust their grip to hit square. Therefore a warhammer takes more training and thought to weild than a mace.

A flail is even more difficult.

You mentioned multiple heads. That's not a mace.

I agree with everything else you said though.

 

[Minigiant]

You mentioned multiple heads. That's not a mace.

I agree with everything else you said though.

Perhaps "striking edges" is a better term.
I meant how the mace has striking edges all around the head whereas the hammer has 1 or 2.

There are lots of other categories that could be used instead of "Simple," "Martial," and "Exotic."

Sort them by shape (Axes, Bows, Hammers, Blades, Polearms...)
Sort them by application (Archery, Fencing, Hunting, Improvised, Jousting, Personal Defense...)
Sort them by combat role (Archer, Cavalry, Infantry, Siege...)
Sort them by damage type (Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing)
Sort them by era (Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Age of Faerie, Age of Dragons, Age of Magic...)
Sort them by region (African, Asian, European, Polynesian...)
Sort them by training requirement (Basic, Expert, Advanced, Master...)

The trouble is, while each of these methods makes sense in its own way, they don't really work in a universal fantasy game sense. If there was never a Stone Age or a continent called "Asia," for example, you can't really group the equipment by era or region unless you make them extremely campaign-specific and define those regions/eras first.

The method that make the most sense to me is Application. If all of the weapons are sorted by how they are used, it makes it a little more sensible to assign them out to different classes and backgrounds. For example: NPC commoners, Rangers, and characters with the Outlander background might gain proficiency with a couple of weapons from the Hunting list. Fighters, NPC soldiers, and characters with the Noble background might have proficiency with a handful of Jousting or Fencing weapons. Most everyone would be proficient with a Personal weapon like a cane, staff, or dagger. And so on.

I think the best way to handle it is via the gamist idea of training requirement. That's why Simple Martial extra works. Because maybe a noble comes from a place that WHFB Bretonnia where nobles only fight with swords, polearms, and lances. Or a hunter gatherer whose culture uses axes.

Basic for classes who wont be using weapons often. (wizards, sorcerer)
Simple for classes who use weapons but arent full on warriors (rogues, other full casters)
Martial for warrior classes (barbarian, fighter, ranger, paladin)
Exotic for regional or traveling warriors. (barbarian, fighter, ranger)
Superior for warrior classes who spend character building resources to upgrade (any)

 

[CleverNickName]

@Minigiant I agree completely. I was only trying to find other ways to categorize all of the weapons in the game besides Simple, Martial, and Exotic. (Not that there's anything wrong with these categories; it's just that the OP was trying to steer the discussion in that direction.)

That said: expanding that list to 5 categories instead of merely 3 would be a great way to go.

 

[Undrave]

Here's some properties that I think could be fun:

Brutal 1/2 : When you roll that number, or below, on your damage dice, you automatically reroll your damage until you roll above said number
Offhand Defensive: When wielding this weapon in your off hand, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (Swordbreaker anyone?)
Twohanded Defensive: When wielding this weapon in two hands, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (iron staff or something?)
High Crit: When you land a critical hit with this weapon, add an extra dice to your damage roll. (might specify the extra die so you could have weapons that do d4 damage, but add d6 when they crit or something)
Swift: You gain advantage to your first attack with this weapon if you drew it as part of the attack action. (Good for katana and hidden daggers)
Two-Ended: This weapon can switch between two damage types whenever you attack with it.
Overwhelming: Whenever you score a critical hit with this weapon, you either push the target 5 feet or the target falls prone.

 

[Minigiant]

@Minigiant I agree completely. I was only trying to find other ways to categorize all of the weapons in the game besides Simple, Martial, and Exotic. (Not that there's anything wrong with these categories; it's just that the OP was trying to steer the discussion in that direction.)

That said: expanding that list to 5 categories instead of merely 3 would be a great way to go.

I think other categories would be greater for a variant rule.
Like how 4e gives many weapons properties based on weapon class. Axes get High Crit. Swords get Keen. Flails get Bypass Shield. Maces get Armor Pierce.

Here's some properties that I think could be fun:

Brutal 1/2 : When you roll that number, or below, on your damage dice, you automatically reroll your damage until you roll above said number
Offhand Defensive: When wielding this weapon in your off hand, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (Swordbreaker anyone?)
Twohanded Defensive: When wielding this weapon in two hands, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (iron staff or something?)
High Crit: When you land a critical hit with this weapon, add an extra dice to your damage roll. (might specify the extra die so you could have weapons that do d4 damage, but add d6 when they crit or something)
Swift: You gain advantage to your first attack with this weapon if you drew it as part of the attack action. (Good for katana and hidden daggers)
Two-Ended: This weapon can switch between two damage types whenever you attack with it.
Overwhelming: Whenever you score a critical hit with this weapon, you either push the target 5 feet or the target falls prone.

I disliked how 5e gave barbarians and fighters high crit and keen respectively than stripped these properties from base weapons.

It would have been better if weapons had more of these properties and classes would bestow the problems to all their weapons and upgrade the weapons that already had it.

A level 9 barbarian would get Brutal Critical. This makes all his melee weapons he is proficient in High Crit and makes high crit weapons Hgh Crit 2.

 

[Undrave]

A level 9 barbarian would get Brutal Critical. This makes all his melee weapons he is proficient in High Crit and makes high crit weapons Hgh Crit 2.

We'd have to be careful not to give High Crit to the best damaging weapons then, so a Barbarian would have to choose between the best Crit or the best regular damage.

 

[Minigiant]

We'd have to be careful not to give High Crit to the best damaging weapons then, so a Barbarian would have to choose between the best Crit or the best regular damage.

I was thinking that High Crit would be the signature of the axe (handaxe, battleaxe, war pick, greataxe) line

• Basic Knife 1d4 slashing light
  • Simple Handaxe 1d6 slashing light thrown (20/60)
    • Martial Battleaxe 1d8 slashing Versatile (1d10)
      • Exotic Francisca 1d8 slashing thrown (20/60)
        • Superior Long Axe 1d10 slashing Heavy, Long, Two Handed,
    • Martial Greataxe 1d12 slashing Heavy, Two-Handed
      • Exotic Orcish Double Axe 1d8 slashing Double (1d6 slashing), Heavy, Two- Handed
      • Exotic Dwarven Urgrosh 1d8 slashing Double (1d6 piercing), Heavy, Two- Handed
    • Martial Halberd 1d12 slashing Heavy, Two Handed, Reach
    • Martial War Pick 1d8 piercing Versatile (1d10)
      • Exotic Gnomish Hooked Hammer 1d8 bludgeoning Double (1d6 piercing), Heavy, Two- Handed

The question is whether to put the weapon type property on each weapon, have it cost a feat, have it cost a fighting style.
I'm leaning to a fighting style.

 

[Undrave]

I was thinking that High Crit would be the signature of the axe (handaxe, battleaxe, war pick, greataxe) line

I was thinking Brutal would be the signature of the Axe lines, with High Crit being associated more with piercing/precision weapon and representing hitting a specific weak point.