Should he recognize a rust monster? (Savage Tide Mild Spoiler)

Wouldn't it make sense for there to be a few rusted items lying about? (The owners might use wooden weapons, but they probably keep the rust monster around specifically to help kill intruding adventures... and that could leave evidence.)
 

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Fifth Element said:
Or, if you think players will be upset by losing precious items, perhaps a rust monster is not a good opponent for them.

There are several monsters (many of them holdovers from the 1E days, where there was, IMO, more of a DM-vs-players mindset) that seem to exist solely to hose players / PCs. The rust monster is one of them. I haven't used a rust monster in a long time (certainly not in 3E/3.5), because I just don't think that kind of thing is particularly fair.
 

kenobi65 said:
There are several monsters (many of them holdovers from the 1E days, where there was, IMO, more of a DM-vs-players mindset) that seem to exist solely to hose players / PCs. The rust monster is one of them. I haven't used a rust monster in a long time (certainly not in 3E/3.5), because I just don't think that kind of thing is particularly fair.
The rust monster is definitely a 'gotcha' monster. Others are things like trappers and mimics, and gelatinous cubes. I've never once used a monster like that in one of my games.
 


Nope, not unless he would have some reason to know of one. As someone else mentioned, a knowledge dungeoneering check would be a valid response, but barring that I'd say let the whining commence...
 

Piratecat said:
The knowledge (dungeoneering) skill specifically allows you to recognize aberrations. DC 10 (for easy) should let him know that this monster destroys metal. Personally, I think I'd let the guy make an untrained skill check for this one. It's more fun that way.

I disagree. This isn't nerf DnD (you know, with all the safety padding). DC15, since he has no skill points in it, he can't make better than a DC10. Unless there is some compelling reason why he would know of this creature, it sounds like an *experience* gaining encounter...
 

You need to decide for yourself about the commonality of various creatures in your world.

If every dungeon has a rust monster - or even just one in four or five in that part of the world, then it is likely that he has heard of such creatures (albeit with some misinformation mixed in). If rust monsters are so rare that this party is the first to come upon one in that area in the last hundred years, then he has not heard of them. If it falls somewhere inbetween, let him roll an Int check to see if he has heard anything, say at DC 15 or such.

If he fails, tell him the creature before him appears to be a dark red-brown cross between a lizard and a roach, shuffling along the ground, perhaps nibbling at some detris on the floor. If you really want to give him a second chance, allow the party to roll Spot checks (DC 20, as so little is left of it) to notice that the creature seems to be gnawing on minute bits of old metal.

If he succeeds in his Int check, tell him it is an uncommon creature about which he has only heard a few strange tales. According to these stories this creature consumes iron based metals, although some tales speak of consumption of bronze, tin, or copper instead. Even though it will involve player knowledge rather than character knowledge, once he hears this he will know what he is facing.

Note also that - as another poster suggested, perhaps it takes multiple touches to reduce metal to ruin. So his shield is touched - and is notably rusted / weakened. He pulls back. He can get the shield repaired (albeit at a cost, sense it is masterwork at least), but it is not yet ruined. If you wish to explain this seeming change in the nature of rust monsters from the norm, perhaps you could say that it seems a bit smaller than normal - a young of their kind that is not yet able to fully ruin a metal item upon a touch.
 

Nyeshet said:
You need to decide for yourself about the commonality of various creatures in your world.

If every dungeon has a rust monster - or even just one in four or five in that part of the world, then it is likely that he has heard of such creatures (albeit with some misinformation mixed in). If rust monsters are so rare that this party is the first to come upon one in that area in the last hundred years, then he has not heard of them. If it falls somewhere inbetween, let him roll an Int check to see if he has heard anything, say at DC 15 or such.

If he fails, tell him the creature before him appears to be a dark red-brown cross between a lizard and a roach, shuffling along the ground, perhaps nibbling at some detris on the floor. If you really want to give him a second chance, allow the party to roll Spot checks (DC 20, as so little is left of it) to notice that the creature seems to be gnawing on minute bits of old metal.

If he succeeds in his Int check, tell him it is an uncommon creature about which he has only heard a few strange tales. According to these stories this creature consumes iron based metals, although some tales speak of consumption of bronze, tin, or copper instead. Even though it will involve player knowledge rather than character knowledge, once he hears this he will know what he is facing.

Note also that - as another poster suggested, perhaps it takes multiple touches to reduce metal to ruin. So his shield is touched - and is notably rusted / weakened. He pulls back. He can get the shield repaired (albeit at a cost, sense it is masterwork at least), but it is not yet ruined. If you wish to explain this seeming change in the nature of rust monsters from the norm, perhaps you could say that it seems a bit smaller than normal - a young of their kind that is not yet able to fully ruin a metal item upon a touch.

I'm just picking your post since it's the last, but I have a general question. What's the point of having folks invest in skills if the DM lets anyone just roll with a 25/75 DC check for knowledge about subject? The character could have invested in knowledge dungeoneering, but didn't. I'd be willing to be that investment was made in things like listen, spot, search, etc. If those are the skills the character chose to invest in, why should they get a benefit for skills they chose not to invest in?

In this case, the rules are very, very clear. DC 10+HD. Untrained folks can only ever know a DC 10 piece of information. They character should only learn about the nature of this creature when his shield gets turned to rust...
 

Semah G Noj said:
I think it was Lore from The Ratings who said (And I'm paraphrasing)
The notion that "if your character has not seen a thing then he can't know what it is" is a bit ludacrous. I mean, I'm sure that at some point during paladin school, the teacher would have shown the drawing from the 1st ed Monster Manual and said "If you ever see one of these, send the squire in with the wooden staff."

If the character had paid attention in paladin school, he would have put points in knowledge dungeoneering to recall that tidbit.
 

Klaus said:
One thing to remember in cases like this: the character has lived in the D&D world *all his life*. He probably trained to be a Fighter since he was a wee lad. More than likely, he listened to stories of veterans about trolls regenerating, rust monsters eating swords and whatnot.

So while the character may not get everything right ("He only eats steel!" -- attacks with silver sword -- "Eeeep! RUN!"), the basics should be common enough knowledge among professionals like him.

The basics are a DC 15 knowledge dungeoneering check. If he has no ranks, he can't make the check. What's the point of knowledge skills if DM's just allow anyone to automatically have them?
 

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