D&D (2024) Should the PHB have an arcane half caster?

Should One DnD have an arcane half caster in the PHB?

  • There should be an arcane half caster in the PHB.

    Votes: 63 67.0%
  • There should be an arcane half caster, but not in the PHB.

    Votes: 18 19.1%
  • One DnD should never have an arcane half caster.

    Votes: 13 13.8%

It doesn't need to. The class changes for 1D&D are happening because of 8 years of global post-release playtesting that have revealed issues either mechanically or narratively that WotC wants to finally errata or change. But the Artificer has not been around long enough for there to be a clarion call to "fix" it yet.

Grante, it probably will happen at some point down the road if enough people continue to play Artificers and find any additional issues with it... but for now it will be fine to use with the 2024 book-- right up until the time WotC decides to re-introduce cross-class subclasses in a splatbook... and the Artificer stans demand at barest minimum a level re-working so that the Artificer now gets its subclass features at the same levels all the 2024 classes do. ;)
I'd say the main 'fix' artificer needs is getting more subclasses. The class feels half abandoned by wotc.
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Why does it have to be in the PHB? Because of symmetry or some orderliness which irritates for it's absence because it feels like a placeholder was not filled? Because I think an arcane half-caster might be fun but I don't see why it would have to be in the core book aside from those types of reasons. Which to me is a bad reason for it to be there.
 



doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Why does it have to be in the PHB? Because of symmetry or some orderliness which irritates for its absence because it feels like a placeholder was not filled? Because I think an arcane half-caster might be fun but I don't see why it would have to be in the core book aside from those types of reasons. Which to me is a bad reason for it to be there.
Phb classes get support without needing to be reprinted.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
That may be true, but no one expects the imp to take out an adult dragon on the warlock's behalf (heck, it isn't even a good meat shield), and the 'lock bragging about how he got shillelagh from his tome won't get very far using it on a frost giant. No one is denying the good utility value, but there is a limited window where they directly contribute significant damage. The sword is really the same. About the time you can get 3 beams out of EB, it is time to put the sword away unless you need to pretend you aren't a magic user by stabbing something (especially if you can look like someone else when you do it)--good luck CSI: Neverwinter finding that sword.

I totally understand why that is a bummer, and a solution is the build something like a warlock designed so you can contribute by stabbing without having to multiclass or beg the DM for a "just under an artifact" weapon you can make into your pact weapon. Alternatively, you could throw in something so that when you successfully stab something, you get recharge a spell slot, but then you would need to do it for the pet and the tome too. And if you thought the pet was bad now.....
All they have to do, seriously just this one thing, is make pact of the blade turn Eldritch blast into a melee attack using your pact weapon as a Spellcasting focus, and taking range/reach and any special properties from the pact weapon. That’s it.

Then blade invocations could make you tougher and able to do cool things, rather than just keep up with any actual warrior in weapon attacks by spending all of your invocations on your pact boon.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Phb classes get support without needing to be reprinted.
Right. And? Why does that mean an arcane half-caster needs to be in the core book? It's not as iconic as the others, and the core book is supposed to be for the iconic classes. So why, other than the sense of orderliness I mentioned, should a non-iconic half-caster arcane class be in the core book?
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Right. And? Why does that mean an arcane half-caster needs to be in the core book? It's not as iconic as the others, and the core book is supposed to be for the iconic classes. So why, other than the sense of orderliness I mentioned, should a non-iconic half-caster arcane class be in the core book?
So, you’re just gonna dismiss the reason I’ve given out of hand for no remotely legitimate reason, and then ask the same question I already answered.

Yeah, even if you are trying to operate in good faith, this exchange isn’t going to be worthwhile if that’s your approach. Certainly doesn’t seem like a question you’re asking in order to understand anything.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
So, you’re just gonna dismiss the reason I’ve given out of hand for no remotely legitimate reason, and then ask the same question I already answered.

Yeah, even if you are trying to operate in good faith, this exchange isn’t going to be worthwhile if that’s your approach. Certainly doesn’t seem like a question you’re asking in order to understand anything.
Doc you may have answered other people with a legitimate reason and I didn't see it, but in response to me your reason was not legitimate. Because it gets support without being reprinted isn't a reason to add a class to the PHB in itself. You could say that about anything in the game. It's completely non-unique to the question and says nothing about an arcane half-caster.
 

Ashrym

Legend
Adding an arcane half-caster because there are a divine and primal half-caster is the box filling approach and doesn't demonstrate a need to be done just for being absent. That seems to be reinforced by comments that are similar to smite spells and abilities, and that looks like getting hung up on a single term that didn't matter in 5e up until spell list changes being proposed.

There are also several ways to combine melee and magic to various degrees including multi-classing into classic builds. This gets back to too many different people have too many different ideas on what that class would look like.

I do think the artificer should be added to the PHB, however; and the eldritch knight could stand some improvements. But adding another class or radically altering a class doesn't have a good reason to do so.

I mean 5e has an arcane half caster with an identity. It's called the artificer.

And (at least initially) it's not making the jump to 1dnd. We don't even know if it will ever get ported across.

We know from the comments given in the UA's mentioning the artificer that the devs are aware of the artificer. The class is more likely to have at least some information (such as a side bar on how to adapt it) than to have nothing because of those mentions.

Though I've never thought of the Bard as arcane (more occult), I totally think it should be a half caster.

It seems like they forgot the entire 'jack of all trades' thing and turned it into a wizard with a guitar.

Why do you think bards should be a half-caster? We've already learned the community response to bard spell casting early in 3.0 and still in 3.5 with improvements when that version of bard massively outclassed rangers and paladins in magical capabilities. Especially 3.5 with the improvements to bard songs.

I disagree with how you interpret a "jack-of-all-trades". The concept needs to be adequately skilled in each of those areas to be worth playing instead of restricted in all areas to the point no one wants to play one. 5e did a great job by giving other arcane spellcasters benefits to improve their spellcasting. That results in being a decent spell-caster but no where near the benefits of metamagic or invocations. Definitely not the arcane recovery, spell list access, ritual mechanics, spell mastery, or signature spells that wizards enjoy.

A bad caster is not a jack-of-all-trades. It's just a bad caster. The full caster bard that lacks those other enhancements that improve spell casting keeps them relying on skill benefits and inspiration while being subpar compared to other full spellcasters.

People always propose to diminish the bard by demoting them back to half-caster, but never propose what the other half gets to be. Half casters need something to make up for a disappointing spell progression.

Bards were never half-casters. They were full-casters who weren't as fleshed out as other full-casters. In 2e and 3.x caster level mattered. Bards progressed in caster level correctly for a full-caster. Compared to paladins and rangers who gained spells far slower with even lower spell access and with caster level restrictions bards didn't have. 4e used the powers structure (arcane source) so weren't restricted and 5e they continued to use the full structure.

In 2e, the XP advancement tables and bonus XP rules had bards at a higher caster level than other magic-users so they had significant advantages as a full spellcaster. In 3.x the magical songs and variant spell levels still gave bards near full spellcaster magic even before the PrC's that added more.

Looking at bards when clerics and druids also didn't cast 9th level spells and then comparing them to paladins and rangers as half-casters doesn't stand up to critical reasoning. Even calling them 2/3's casters is looking at 3e but ignoring other editions, ignoring the magical song contributions, ignoring the caster level rules, ignoring the spells that varied with spell level based on class, and ignoring PrC's that improved spellcasting for bards further.
 

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