D&D (2024) Should Wish be an Epic boon?

[mellored]

Earlier, mainly Wish is what defines the Legend tier, 17 to 20.

But Wish feels epic. It is great for a boon. It represents the purest form of the mastery of magic. One alters reality itself, directly, by means of ones own desire, ones own will, ones own wish.

And what do martials get that can equal that?

 

[Yaarel]

And what do martials get that can equal that?

What do Martials get in place of Wish?

Not my problem.

Heh, just kidding. But at Epic levels, I hope Fighter players can handle something that is at least a little bit unrealistic.

 

[Marandahir]

And what do martials get that can equal that?

Not having to risk losing their ability to use one of their precious near-capstone class features every time they use it?

I'm being a bit facetious here -- I think Martials need more Quadraticism and/or Casters need more Linearity. But that does seem to be what WotC have considered the balancing factor for choosing Wish as one of your 9th-level spells. You might lose it entirely if you use it for anything other than being a bonus 8th-level spell slot that you can choose the spell used out of the rulebooks on the fly. It's still a powerful feature if you just use it that way, though probably not as powerful as a 9th-level spell would be if you knew you had the right 9th level spell prepared that day for the purpose you would have prepared that extra 8th-level spell for. But the temptation to use it to alter reality itself, at the cost of losing the ability entirely, is REALLY BAD PLAYER ABILITY DESIGN.

It's great adventure design, mind you. It's the same reason we don't have spells that cost hit points to cast. The risk is far too high but the reward is also far too high, so the design would be really swingy. Wish is functionally that. That's why I'd advocate for moving it to the DM's Guide and creating a lesser wish spell that reflects what Genie-Patron Warlocks or top-tier Sorcerers might be able to do.

 

[GreyLord]

Sounds like a pretty cool idea.

 

[HammerMan]

And what do martials get that can equal that?

Is there a reason why (if wish were made a boom not a spell) we could not have it just be “alter reality” and say “reality bends around you and your will be done” as flavor text and let any epic character take it?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Is there a reason why (if wish were made a boom not a spell) we could not have it just be “alter reality” and say “reality bends around you and your will be done” as flavor text and let any epic character take it?

Okay, lets turn a player into Molecule Man when people don't like them being batman... that would both be funny and scary

 

[HammerMan]

Okay, lets turn a player into Molecule Man when people don't like them being batman... that would both be funny and scary

Let’s keep it a detective so Corrigan instead of Wayne

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Let’s keep it a detective so Corrigan instead of Wayne

I think spector is more a priest epic boon...

 

[shadowoflameth]

Wish is commonly sighted as the "most powerful" of spells. When people discuss possible spell changes in one dnd, wish often hits that list.

There is however, another option we could consider. What if Wish was not on any spell lists, but instead was unlocked through an epic boon only?

Example:
Epic Boon of Ultimate Magic
You have come to understand the pinnacle of mortal magic.
Gain +1 to either Intelligence, Wisdom, or charisma. This stat can be increased up to 30.
The Wish spell is added to your spell list.

This would have a few implications:

• Wish becomes a spell for 20th level only. Effectively a "10th level spell" for all intents and purposes.
• Obtaining Wish is a fairly big investment, as its competing with all of the other cool epic boons you could have acquired.

This actually does have some precendence in the game. There are older versions of the game where Wish was only available to 20th level wizards....and was a "capstone" of sorts. This concept would be in line with that.


What do you think, would this change put wish in a better balance with other 9th level spells and the game?

Interesting idea. Instead of the recent playtest epic boons around getting spells or uses of a spell that were lower level, I suggested in the feedback, that you could have a boon that gives you one spell slot of a level that you have and one spell known and always prepared that you learn and can do 1/day up to 8th level without using a slot. The up to 8th is a main use of the current version of Wish.

 

[the Jester]

Is there a reason why (if wish were made a boom not a spell) we could not have it just be “alter reality” and say “reality bends around you and your will be done” as flavor text and let any epic character take it?

Is that the typical fantasy of a high level fighter?

That seems incredibly jarring to me.