Silent Image of a Fireball

[Olaf the Stout]

The resident powergamer in my group wants to use Silent Image to replicate the Fireball spell. He wanted to know if he can do this and if people fail their Will save will they take any damage?

Now there's absolutely no chance of me allowing a 1st level spell to be equal to a 3rd level Fireball spell with the exception being that you can avoid damage altogether with a Will save. I think my powergamer knows this but he likes to test the boundaries, just to see what I wll let him get away with.

I was just wondering what the spell should actually do if the person fails their Will save. I know that Silent Image doesn't have any sound, temperature, smell, etc., However, imagine a person rolls a 1 for their Will save. What effect would you make the spell have on them?

Olaf the Stout

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Figments can't actually harm or physically affect creatures (except, of course, for blocking line of sight). If he tried to do this, tey would see the fireball explode and feel nothing.

What he's looking to do would be a shadow effect; either the Shadow Evocation spell, or the Shadow Illusion class feature of a Shadowcraft Mage. The latter would actually allow him to turn a (heightened to level 4, or 3 with Earth Spell feat) silent image into a shadow spell that could mimic fireball, doing full damage on a failed will save, or 30-40% on a successful one. The latter also isn't generally available until ECL 10+, though...

 

[Vegepygmy]

I was just wondering what the spell should actually do if the person fails their Will save. I know that Silent Image doesn't have any sound, temperature, smell, etc., However, imagine a person rolls a 1 for their Will save. What effect would you make the spell have on them?

None. He shouldn't even have to make a saving throw. "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw." (PHB, page 174.) It's a fireball that makes no sound when it detonates, and produces no heat; it obviously isn't a real fireball.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

None. He shouldn't even have to make a saving throw. "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw." (PHB, page 174.) It's a fireball that makes no sound when it detonates, and produces no heat; it obviously isn't a real fireball.

The Silent Spell metamagic feat can make real Fireballs silent though, as is a Fireball cast in an area of magical silence. Sure, it does't have the heat or smell but it still might make someone think it's a real Fireball.

I'm not overly convinced myself but the paragraph I wrote above is the reasoning I could see my powergamer player using to try to support his arguement.

Olaf the Stout

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, they'll think it's a real "fireball" (I feel the need to use quotations), but it will still have no actual effect on them. Really, they won't know what it is or is pretending to be w/o spellcraft. If they lack that skill, they don't know what specifically a fireball is, and the illusion will just look like some sort of fire attack. It willl seem to be real (failed the save), but for some reason, it did not harm them. Who knows why? Maybe they were saved by divine fortune, maybe the enemy caster screwed up the casting, whatever.

If the enemies DO have spellcraft...sure, they understand specifically what a fireball is. They also could just ID it as a Silent Image spell anyway, though... In any case, it's still not actually harming them.

If you wanted to be nice and rule that anyone who fails the will save dives for cover instinctively and thus becomes prone, maybe do that. But it wouldn't make sense, since a) that's not a typical effect of rolling reflex for half damage and b) just to reiterate a), there's actually a separate feat in C.Adv just to bring this sort of effect into existence --the Dive for Cover feat, which lets you make a second attempt with the downside of ending up prone.

I'm all for rewarding creativity, but there's nothing particularly creative about this idea. IMHO, it's actually one of the dumbest and most self-defeating uses of Silent Image I've ever heard of.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Thanks for your reply SotS. Like I said in my opening post, there's no way that I was planning on letting it operate like a regular Fireball with a Will save. I just wanted to get people's thoughts on what it should do.

I like your explanation of it going off, those failing their save not realising that it was just an illusion, but still not taking any damage (without knowing why they didn't)

Olaf the Stout

 

[Mistwell]

It cannot do damage, but I would let it add a +2 bonus to another action that could be helped by the foe thinking it just managed to somehow dodge a fireball. Like an intimidate check.

 

[pawsplay]

The Silent Spell metamagic feat can make real Fireballs silent though, as is a Fireball cast in an area of magical silence.

Silent Spell does no such thing.

Benefit
A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components.

 

[SolosAddie]

i agree with the +2 to intimidate or maybe bluff check. hypothetically, trying to get a group to back down with a show of force (imaged fireball) is a bit clever.

 

[moritheil]

Sky is right; my first response would be to tell the player that he can do that only once he takes levels in Shadowcraft Mage, as otherwise he is trying to appropriate powers that he does not have.

Paws, nice catch.

Really I could see the use of a silent image of a fireball going either way: on the one hand it might be a "warning shot;" on the other hand it might seem to a skeptic that the mage has a poor control of his own powers.