Single-spell Caster & a Feat-based Class

[OB1]

First of all I just want to say great initial work! I have just two thoughts.

For Protean you may want to consider at 5th level giving the option to attack twice when taking the attack option or to take a feat. Otherwise, I would bring in a new feat that gives the same, but has a prerequisite of 5th level.

For Cynosure, I wonder if you would be better served by picking several spells (or spell like abilities) and making subclasses that specifically fit around each spell. Say for example energy blast, telekinesis, illusion, and mind control. So energy blast might manifest as burning hands at first level, move to fireball at 5th, then delayed blast and finally meteors. Keep the rest of the structure in place. Might also be worth giving a related cantrip ability. I like where you are going, but think there may just be too much room for abuse with it being wide open.

 

[Elon Tusk]

In light of bganon's comment, I think removing the Cynosure's Singular Recovery feature may be wise.

Arcane Recovery was something I added, took out, then added again. Something got lost in the balancing so I've taken it out again.

It also occurs to me that neither of these classes have subclasses. I feel like there could be potential there. Perhaps the Cynosure could be divided into a subclass that truly only has one spell and has more power to improve it, while the other has a handful of other spells like I have been pulling for. Perhaps the Protean could have subclasses based on what types of builds could be expected: One focused on martial combat, one focused on magic, and one focused on skills.

I usually like the idea of subclasses. There's something there but will take some time to think through what to leave in a base class and then how to work and balance each sub. I'll give it some thought.

As Yunru pointed out the Protean lacks any of the at-will damage increasing features that most classes have, perhaps you could give it features based on the archetype chosen: Extra Attack(1) at 5th and an ability that gives you an extra die of weapon damage somewhere between 11th and 14th if you chose the martial combat subclass, features that improve your attack cantrips in a manner similar to the Warlock's eldritch blast centered invocations if you chose the magic subclass, and defensive features (in place of damaging features) like the rogues evasion and uncanny dodge if you chose the skill based subclass.

I've been toying with the concept of an Elite Feat at levels 5th and 14th level. These could give more powerful feats such as those you mention.
For the concept, I think I want to avoid subclasses for the Protean because its role is that of a generalist.

On a separate note, I went through all spells of level 1 to 5 with a casting time of longer than 1 action, and none of them seem like they really break if you could cast them as an action, so I would consider allowing the Cynosure to cast their S. Spell as an action without having to spend additional spell charges on it, as it doesn't seem fun to be stuck in combat unable to cast your one spell because it takes too long.

Yep. Easy fix.

For Protean you may want to consider at 5th level giving the option to attack twice when taking the attack option or to take a feat. Otherwise, I would bring in a new feat that gives the same, but has a prerequisite of 5th level.

Yes. That seems to be the consensus so I'm working on Elite Feats as a solution.

For Cynosure, I wonder if you would be better served by picking several spells (or spell like abilities) and making subclasses that specifically fit around each spell. Say for example energy blast, telekinesis, illusion, and mind control. So energy blast might manifest as burning hands at first level, move to fireball at 5th, then delayed blast and finally meteors. Keep the rest of the structure in place. Might also be worth giving a related cantrip ability. I like where you are going, but think there may just be too much room for abuse with it being wide open.

As I mentioned early, something like that was my initial intent - following a spell up through the levels increasing in power, but I found there wasn't a clean solution (meaning, there would be lots of tracks to map out and some of those didn't map well or at all).
I also considered trying to track spells through Schools of Magic or making each school a subclass but couldn't gain traction with those ideas. Perhaps with the input you guys are giving, I can rework those.


Thanks for the input guys!

 

[OB1]

As I mentioned early, something like that was my initial intent - following a spell up through the levels increasing in power, but I found there wasn't a clean solution (meaning, there would be lots of tracks to map out and some of those didn't map well or at all).
I also considered trying to track spells through Schools of Magic or making each school a subclass but couldn't gain traction with those ideas. Perhaps with the input you guys are giving, I can rework those.

Keep in mind that you don't have to start with more than 2 or 3 tracks. You can always map others out later as additional subclasses.

Another approach would be that you choose 1 spell from the Wizard spell list at 1st level, then at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th, you can substitute that spell for any other spell in the same school. Of course you then loose the flavor of mastering a single spell, but I think it might fit better mechanically with what you are attempting.

 

[Phazonfish]

I had an idea for nerfing higher level spells before they are normally available.

If your Singular Spell is of a level greater than half your Cynosure level (round up), it gains the following properties when you cast it:

• If this spell would target more than one creature or object or would effect all creatures or objects in an area, it targets one creature or object within the spell's range instead.
• All creatures or objects damaged by this spell or by a source or effect resulting from this spell have resistance to that damage.

Does this sound like a good fix? Does this break anything? Are any spells not fixed by this still problems?

 

[Elon Tusk]

I had an idea for nerfing higher level spells before they are normally available.

If your Singular Spell is of a level greater than half your Cynosure level (round up), it gains the following properties when you cast it:

• If this spell would target more than one creature or object or would effect all creatures or objects in an area, it targets one creature or object within the spell's range instead.
• All creatures or objects damaged by this spell or by a source or effect resulting from this spell have resistance to that damage.

Does this sound like a good fix? Does this break anything? Are any spells not fixed by this still problems?

When you say "nerfing higher level spells," do you up to 5th level like I have Cynosure currently built or spells up to 9th level?

9th level spells like Wish wouldn't be fixed.
Spells like Animate Objects wouldn't either as written: one huge object could still be targeted.
Spells like Geas (cast at its lowest level) or Polymorph only effect one creature.

I think there is too much variety in spell effects to make this work efficiently; I tried to make something like that work.
It seems that a list of limitations would have to be pretty long to restrict every spell, and then it still might not be flexible enough to account for spells added later.

 

[Elon Tusk]

Here's an update for the Protean:
- Adding Temporary Feats as a way to give even more situational versatility.
- Adding Elite Feats as a way to balance with other class features such as Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, Smite, etc. without directly stepping on the toes of those classes.
- Adding Ability Score Excess as a class capstone on par with what other classes get.

 

[Phazonfish]

When you say "nerving higher level spells," do you up to 5th level like I have Cynosure currently built or spells up to 9th level?

9th level spells like Wish wouldn't be fixed.
Spells like Animate Objects wouldn't either as written: one huge object could still be targeted.
Spells like Geas (cast at its lowest level) or Polymorph only effect one creature.

I think there is too much variety in spell effects to make this work efficiently; I tried to make something like that work.
It seems that a list of limitations would have to be pretty long to restrict every spell, and then it still might not be flexible enough to account for spells added later.

I intended for this change to be put into place without removing any of the current restrictions, so since 9th level spells were already disallowed they still can't be chosen.

Also, I think this is a step in the right direction for Animate Objects, because you can no longer have a swarm of tiny objects. Like you said, you can still target one huge object, but where is the huge object coming from? Does one carry a huge object with them, or depend on there being one already at the scene of the combat. Also, since the objects becoming animated is an effect of the spell, all creatures and objects have resistance to any damage they deal.

As you said, this doesn't nerf spells that only target one creature like Geas, but I don't think that's a problem. A lot of those spells, with the possible exception of Polymorph, are fine as is, or at least not so powerful as to be an immediate concern.

 

[Phazonfish]

No posts for a couple days, any news?

 

[Elon Tusk]

Thursday I worked up the Elite Feats and a few other mods for Protean.
Yesterday I worked up a Mind Flayer PC.

The pure single-spell caster is about where I want him, but since a few people have mentioned it I don't mind working up some sub-classes.

I think I'd take out some of the power bonuses from the main class and moving those to a pure single-caster subclass.
That would give me room to work up a different subclass that works up the levels with related spells, something along the line of a "burning hands at first level, move to fireball at 5th, then delayed blast and finally meteors" as OB1 suggested. But I'd want to give several spell paths for the subclass to follow such as "energy blast, telekinesis, illusion, and mind control."
In order to do so I'll need to lay out all of the current spells and see what makes sense, which will just take some time.

 

[Elon Tusk]

So here's a rough draft of how a spell might increase upward in levels for a Cynosure sub-class.
I selected spells in wizard schools that seemed most related.
It's by no means clean as some school levels had nothing in common or no spells for certain levels.
I might try to home-brew some spells for the missing levels at some point.