Slavery, Rape, Madness and War!

[David Argall]

armies & wives

"it flies in the face of the commonly held medical, psychological and social statistics, annecdotes, studies and theories."

Many of which are actually nothing more than political propaganda. the "I'm a victim and deserve everything" model is very popular these days.


"There is no extant, credible evidence to support your claim"

For a clear point, we might consider the common advice that if you attempt to rescue a wife from a wifebeater, you are not to turn your back on the wife, as she is quite likely to help the beater by whoping you one. People vary widely of course, but she is not this helpless wimp who can't defend herself at all. Often she is a full and equal combatant.


"this one instance doesn't add up to "Wholesale exaggeration"."

True, but this is not just one instance. It is simply the routine case to exaggerate army size. You exaggerate your own to claim greater power, and exaggerate the other guy's to puff up your victory or excuse your defeat.
You will find this true of most ancient statistics. They can be quoted, but should not be believed.

Of course, I am arguing against myself here. The larger the army, the more the PC, the center of our game, becomes a mere footnote of no importance, which means the less we want war in our game.

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

David,

So far your statements on rape and domestic violence show that you lack any genuine understanding on either issue. Your responses are very similar to the kinds of lame excuses and lies which abusers use to try to justify their unjustifiable actions. I hope that this is just because you are ignorant and not because you are complicit.

I think it's a waste of time for us to continue this discussion any further.


SHARK
Any thoughts on the Thorn of the White Rose PrC?

 

[David Argall]

final

"you lack any genuine understanding on either issue. Your responses are very similar to the kinds of lame excuses and lies "

I routinely translate such comments to mean "I have the inferior case, so I am going to retreat into meaningless name calling rather than confess I am wrong."

 

[Dinkeldog]

Re: final

"you lack any genuine understanding on either issue. Your responses are very similar to the kinds of lame excuses and lies "

I routinely translate such comments to mean "I have the inferior case, so I am going to retreat into meaningless name calling rather than confess I am wrong."

Funny, I routinely translate them to, "I have personal experience in a field you've claimed to have none, but refuse to listen anyway."

I guess it's all in the translation.

Which, btw, should include no further discussion of the subtopic of rape. In the meantime, I'd like all involved to consider if any of their statements might have been a tad harsh and possibly harm future discussions. If so, I'd recommend an e-mail to those that might in the future consider you a waste of electrons in order to moderate those opinions.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

I also think that the Cthulhu book can be used to great effect for a campaign. The danger of growing insane and developing all manner of strange neurorsis can be very dramatic for players to play, or to struggle to avoid, or seek to be healed from such!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[pogre]

The Vikings

Interesting thread except the vocab debates.

I was thinking about this the other day when doing some research on Viking culture. These four areas really dovetail into Nordic culture from 550-900. Not that I am pointing to the Vikings as the only examples by any means!

I read a first hand account of a Rus burial that included details of a female slave that was selected to "go" with her Viking Lord. All four elements were present in the ceremony. I'll save you the graphic details - it was just a fascinating glimpse into Viking life.

I plan on modelling barbarians in my own campaign on this example.

PS - those who disagree with me shall receive the flying eagle ;-).

 

[David Argall]

translations

"you lack any genuine understanding on either issue. Your responses are very similar to the kinds of lame excuses and lies "

I routinely translate such comments to mean "I have the inferior case, so I am going to retreat into meaningless name calling rather than confess I am wrong."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Funny, I routinely translate them to, "I have personal experience in a field you've claimed to have none, but refuse to listen anyway."]

A distinctly dubious translation
a] Little or no claim of personal experience was made by either party, merely a charge that one lacked personal experience. The implication that the other had any such experience is certainly wrong on some points, and probably wrong on all.
b] Any such personal experience is of dubious value. Note here that we disqualify jurrors and judges who have personal experiences with the issue before them. Since our subjects of debate can involve millions of personal experiences, our own personal experiences are easily able to blind us to the facts, and we consider our one personal case as more important than the million cases of other people.

 

[sword-dancer]

Re: The Vikings

PS - those who disagree with me shall receive the flying eagle ;-).

I thinkm you mean the Blutaar = blood eagle.

 

[mmadsen]

I also think that the Cthulhu book can be used to great effect for a campaign. The danger of growing insane and developing all manner of strange neurorsis can be very dramatic for players to play, or to struggle to avoid, or seek to be healed from such!

How do you fit Lovecraftian neuroses into a (typical) D&D campaign? Do certain spells and monsters cause lasting neurosis?

 

[mmadsen]

Women seem to get the shaft in all of history, and today is no exception. There are honor killings - women are killed in most societies (happens everywhere, even the United States - IIRC, there was an honor killing in Missouri several years back just because a teenage girl got a job - and the father killed her because he believed that women should not have jobs, but to stay home.) There are also witch hunts (Any female deviants? Any males "supporting"? Burn 'em at the stake!) and so on. Therefore, I try to make my fantasy more "egalitarian". Except in historical eras, where I leave gender roles in and just keep the more gross bits out.

This may shock you, but men are much, much more likely to be the victims of violence than women. (What won't shock anyone is that they're also much, much more likely to be the perpetrators of violence too.) What's interesting is that we're appalled when a woman is hurt, but we accept male deaths fairly readily -- in war, in the workplace, etc.