D&D 5E small Monk change to decrease Dex dependency

[GlassJaw]

Overall I like the monk class. But I don't like how heavily skewed it is to Dex builds. Strength-based monks are almost inferior in every way unless focused on grappling, and even that is better server by other classes.

I'm starting to introduce my son to D&D and he's really excited to play a dragonborn monk. A really cool concept but one I would never play because dragonborn does nothing for the monk class. Now I know the upcoming Tasha's book is going to remedy that as far as racial stat adjustments go. But why not do the same for classes as well?

However, I don't mean changing a class's primary stat. But some classes essentially have multiple primary stats, which really restricts build customization. The monk is the prime example of this: Wis is their primary stat but Dex is just as important. A wizard needs Intelligence but nothing in the class forces a player to invest in another stat.

This eliminates archetypes like Little John, Chong Li (Bloodsport), a sumo wrestler, pit fighter, etc.

So my idea makes two simple changes:

Unarmored Defense: equals to 10 + your Dexterity or Constitution modifier (whichever is higher) + your Wisdom modifier.
Deflect Arrows: Damage is reduced by 1d10 + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (whichever is higher) + your monk level.

I don't think this would cause any balance issues. Thoughts?

 

[Eltab]

Alternative: Deflect Arrows requires Proficiency in Perception to get the full benefit. And the ability uses WISmod instead of DEXmod.
(Cue Robin Hood: Men in Tights scene where the blind guy says "I saw that coming a mile away".)

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't think this would cause any balance issues. Thoughts?

It is just shifting the focus away from DEX so it should be ok. FWIW here is the option we use for Unarmored Defense.

Unarmored Defense
Your AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity or Wisdom modifier (your choice) + your proficiency bonus.

So, this way you can focus on Wisdom (if you want) and your training in martial arts (proficiency bonus) to reflect your defensive ability, i.e. AC.

In our online game we have three monks, two use DEX but the other uses WIS, in addition to their proficiency bonus, for AC. It works well for us.

As for Deflect Missiles, I would just stick with DEX personally. You don't need to translate every feature into a STR-based monk IMO.

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[Stalker0]

@GlassJaw yes I did something similar to what dnd4vr, in the same theme as your idea. By adjusting unarmored defense you can detach the monk from dex dependence is you wish to.

You could also base deflect arrows off of wisdom, I think there is plenty of precedent for that in the lore (aka martial arts action movies!)

 

[cbwjm]

For a monk's unarmoured defence I replace dexterity for strength for those who study the way of the mountain stance. I'd be open for other ability scores replacing dexterity (or wisdom) as well.

 

[John R Davis]

10+ Wis+Prof would be nice and simple and eliminate the almighty Dex stat

 

[DND_Reborn]

@GlassJaw yes I did something similar to what dnd4vr, in the same theme as your idea. By adjusting unarmored defense you can detach the monk from dex dependence is you wish to.

You could also base deflect arrows off of wisdom, I think there is plenty of precedent for that in the lore (aka martial arts action movies!)

Since WIS represents your "awareness" in the greater sense, I would agree using WIS instead of DEX for Deflect Arrows could work thematically just fine--more so than STR IMO.

It sets precedent for an interesting idea...

To remove the MAD from monks, you could easily rationalize only using WIS as their primary score.

Unarmored Defense
Your AC is equal to 10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your proficiency bonus.
Rational: the training of your martial arts (proficiency bonus) supersedes your natural defense (DEX).

Martial Arts
When you make attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons that lack the heavy or two-handed properties, you can use your Wisdom modifier on your attack and damage rolls.
Rational: your understanding of combat, finding weaknesses, and intuition allow you to strike more effectively. Maybe also something about going for nerve endings or something? I've thought about a "vital point" style.

Ki already uses WIS modifier for calculating target save DCs.

Deflect Missiles
1d10 + Wisdom modifier + monk level
Rational: your sixth-sense and awareness of your surroundings allows you to use your reaction to avoid attack. (This is also a reasonable explanation for Unarmored Defense.)

Initiative
Your initiative check can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier (or maybe just: you add your Wisdom modifier to your initiative rolls.)
Rational: many people use INT and/or WIS for initiative instead of DEX. Also many classes, and subclasses, allow you to add an additional ability score modifier to initiative.

So, IMO it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make WIS the main score and remove DEX in one or more ways.

 

[jayoungr]

Just a note about upping the reliance on WIS: WIS determines the save DC for things like stunning strike. So getting rid of the incentive to raise DEX creates an incentive to just pump everything into WIS, making the monk better at any move that requires a save on the part of the target.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Just a note about upping the reliance on WIS: WIS determines the save DC for things like stunning strike. So getting rid of the incentive to raise DEX creates an incentive to just pump everything into WIS, making the monk better at any move that requires a save on the part of the target.

Sure, that is no different from every caster class, or any class that has such a feature that require saves.

Think of it this way, with unarmored defense (as is in the PHB), your AC is based on DEX and WIS already, so you can have a good AC by favoring WIS over DEX already. When it comes to attacks, hexblade already allows you to sub CHA for STR or DEX. There are probably other classes out there, but maybe that is the only one? Off-hand I am not certain about that. Perhaps to balance the attack/damage feature, maybe allow WIS to modify only the attack roll? Then your damage is still modified by STR or DEX as normal?

Most classes have one score that is primary, and then favor DEX or CON for their second (and often third) choice because as we know they are SO skewed towards being important in the game. A lot of groups already are favoring nerfing the importance of DEX and even CON to a point.

Anyway, I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, I just don't think it will be as big a factor as you might think. shrug

 

[GlassJaw]

Since WIS represents your "awareness" in the greater sense, I would agree using WIS instead of DEX for Deflect Arrows could work thematically just fine--more so than STR IMO.

It sets precedent for an interesting idea...

To remove the MAD from monks, you could easily rationalize only using WIS as their primary score.

Unarmored Defense
Your AC is equal to 10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus your proficiency bonus.
Rational: the training of your martial arts (proficiency bonus) supersedes your natural defense (DEX).

I do like this but I'm slightly "concerned" (for lack of a better word) with using proficiency to increase AC. It doesn't have any precedent anywhere else in the rules. Proficiency applies to saving throws but I don't believe it is used to add to AC anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong).

@cbwjm mentioned "mountain stance"-style monk using Str instead of Dex, which was kind of my concept as well.

Martial Arts
When you make attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons that lack the heavy or two-handed properties, you can use your Wisdom modifier on your attack and damage rolls.
Rational: your understanding of combat, finding weaknesses, and intuition allow you to strike more effectively. Maybe also something about going for nerve endings or something? I've thought about a "vital point" style.

Ki already uses WIS modifier for calculating target save DCs.

I'm hesitant to use Wisdom to replace Str or Dex for attack and damage. Other melee classes don't get that benefit. Hexblade is a special case and one of the few (if only) places to completely replace Str or Dex with another stat for both attack and damage rolls.

Deflect Missiles
1d10 + Wisdom modifier + monk level
Rational: your sixth-sense and awareness of your surroundings allows you to use your reaction to avoid attack. (This is also a reasonable explanation for Unarmored Defense.)

I like this a lot.

Initiative
Your initiative check can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier (or maybe just: you add your Wisdom modifier to your initiative rolls.)
Rational: many people use INT and/or WIS for initiative instead of DEX. Also many classes, and subclasses, allow you to add an additional ability score modifier to initiative.

So, IMO it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make WIS the main score and remove DEX in one or more ways.

I like this a lot too, whether replacing Dex to adding to. A nice boost for the monk.