Snake's Swiftness, Mass: Better than Fireball?

[kyonu]

Okay, so I have this level 6 sorcerer, who just got there, and I get 1 (woohoo!) level 3 spell. My D&D buddies (Which most of are melee combatants in this campaign) are yelling at me to take Fireball, but I said to hold on, I wanna look at spells. They kinda rolled their eyes and we left for the night (end of session level).

So I was looking at the Spell Compendium, and there was this spell called Snake's Swiftness, Mass, which allows all allies within medium range, in a 20ft. radius burst take an extra attack in melee or range. Assuming that's a 40-foot circle (40ft diameter is the circumference of a 20ft radius), all allies within that 40ft blob take an extra attack?

Wow. If that IS the case, then that begs the other question: Supposing I get 3 heavy melee hitters in that bubble, who deal an average of 20+ damage, wouldn't that be much better than Fireball?

I know Fireball has a longer range, has a pretty powerful AOE, an ignites anything that can be ignited (which btw is cool), but the damage is maximised at 36 damage, minus any resistances. My main melee partner deals 20+ damage average, and on a critical (17-20 on a scythe) deals 80+ damage, and the other around just 20+ regardless. Wouldn't Snake's Swiftness technically be a better option versus three or less enemies?

I would like feedback on the spells combined, since I'm probably going to take Fireball next level anyways. (Or a better Invisibility, so I can buff the party AND do melee)

Thanks!

 

[Ahnehnois]

Haste also grants an extra attack (albeit only if they full attack) and grants other bonuses and lasts several rounds. I'd say that's a better spell for most purposes.

The overall question of enhancement vs. damage depends on your party. If you have a large party of decent fighters (or there are summoned creatures/animal companions/etc.), then enhancement is good. If you have a small party that can't deal damage, fireball is better. It sounds like you have a party that would benefit from being hasted/swifted.

 

[Dandu]

I'd go for Haste because it provides an extra attack on a full attack, plus many other options.

Incidentally, are you in need of a sorcerer guide?

Or perhaps some overpowered sorcerer builds?

Edit: The Tangled Web is down, so I offer this Myth Weavers character sheet.

 

[Corsair]

I'm leery of taking spells for a sorcerer that are only useful in certain situations, especially as your first spell of a new level.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Haste is better in almost every way unless it's an extremely short combat.

Snake's Switness, Mass is generally a spell I only use as a Druid, who get it at level 2 and don't have spells like fireball or haste to compete with it for the slot.

 

[Dandu]

You should post your entire spell and feat list so we can go over it. You get more than just a new third level spell at level 6.

You can trade out a first level spell for another one, and you learn a new cantrip, plus you get a feat.

Now about Haste:

The stated benefits are one attack at highest BaB as part of a full attack action, a +30 enhancement bonus to all modes of movement (to a maximum twice double the normal movement speed) a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.

The extra attack and bonus to attack is good. +30 movement is good, especially since armor cuts down your movement. It also gives +12 to jump check, which means if you have to move over rough terrain, leap across roof tops, or anything else while wearing armor, it becomes much easier. And it lasts for rounds/level, so you can do other stuff while it contributes to damage. The cumulative damage will probably be more than that of a fireball, and you won't have to cast it round after round.

It also counters Slow, which can be crippling for melee characters.

 

[Jhaelen]

Normally, I'd say at level 6 fireball's a better choice. It's usually at higher levels that spells like haste are really a better choice.

But if your buddies really dish out 20+ average damage consistently (I wonder how?!), things might be different.

Then there's only two potential advantages of fireball over snake's swiftness/haste:
1) range: fireball has an incredible range. I've seen combats that were decided before the enemies came into combat range. Naturally, this won't be of any use to you if you're mainly dungeon-crawling. But it's a big plus if you regularly have wilderness encounters.

2) energy type damage: fire's about the weakest energy type but at least it's _something_ that's different from regular, weapon-type damage. It's good against foes with high DR. So, unless you already have other ways to deal energy type damage, fireball isn't bad (especially with a feat to change the energy type to, say, acid).

 

[Aran Thule]

Im also backing the vote for Haste, longer duration, more utility, no chance of friendly fire incidents.
At 6th level you will be doing on average 21 damage, thats 10 on a save or less if they have any resistance.
As for access to fire damage, imo take scorching ray and next level you will be doing two rays worth 4d6 each with it.

 

[kyonu]

Haste also grants an extra attack (albeit only if they full attack) and grants other bonuses and lasts several rounds. I'd say that's a better spell for most purposes.

The overall question of enhancement vs. damage depends on your party. If you have a large party of decent fighters (or there are summoned creatures/animal companions/etc.), then enhancement is good. If you have a small party that can't deal damage, fireball is better. It sounds like you have a party that would benefit from being hasted/swifted.

See, I thought about Haste aswell... And actually, I would put up in the same boat as Snake's Swiftness, Mass, mainly because you need to be in a full-attack action to make good use of it. So they're both fully situational, 'specially since my DM likes when things move around.

Anyways, as someone stated above, here is a list of the spells I currently have. Note: This build is based on staying out of combat as much as possible, and buffing the party. I'm using spells that I found in the Spell Compendium, PHB, and Complete Arcane.

Level 0:
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Read Magic
Resistance
Daze
Touch of Fatigue
Prestigiditation

Level 1:
Expeditious Retreat, Swift
Nerveskitter
Ray of Clumsiness
Orb of Fire, Lesser

Level 2:
Slapping Hand
Phantasmal Assailants (Extra Slot feat, Complete Arcane)
Invisibility
Snake's Swiftness (Extra Spell feat, Complete Arcane)

Level 3:
Snake's Swiftness

Now, unfortunately Orb of Fire, Lesser has to stay there, because I've used it in the last campaign, and the DM is letting me test certain spells since I JUST got use of the Spell Compendium. But if I use a spell in the game, it's permanently a spell. Same goes for Invisibility.

Now, aside from those two, I have Ray of Clumsiness and Phantasmal Assailants as Dex damagers, since on a high roll they can kill most enemies at this level. (17 dex damage, Assailants allows this to drop below 1) If I'm mistaken on the dropping below 1 part, please let me know!

Otherwise, he's based on dealing damage through party members, thus the snake's swiftness (which is still up for grabs), giving them better Initiative, slapping hand to cause Attacks of opportunities, Expeditious Retreat, Swift to get my weakling ass outta there (15 AC and only 36 HP!)

But if your buddies really dish out 20+ average damage consistently (I wonder how?!), things might be different.

Indeed, well, the DM is letting us use whatever WotC D&D 3.5 d20 version race out there. My guys are using some pretty whacky stuff, like the main damage dealer, a Naga from the Warcraft d20 system. (All classes need to be D&D 3.5 tho) I am using a Bloodelf, but unfortunately he has no major abilities for spells and the like; just a better Elf basically.

As for access to fire damage, imo take scorching ray and next level you will be doing two rays worth 4d6 each with it.

Had planned on getting it next level, actually, when it really becomes useful.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ray of Clumsiness, just as Ray of Enfeeblement, is a dex penalty, NOT damage. It cannot kill or paralyze anyone, cannot reduce dex below 1, and multiple castings do not stack, they overlap.

Don't recall the other spell, if it really does dex damage, then yes. I don't think you can even lower the dex with ray of clumsiness to make it easier to dex damage them to 0. I think as a penalty, it should be applied after the actual ability score is determined. So...say you get a -10 dex penalty on someone with dex 14. You then deal 5 actual dex damage with the assailants spell. His dex is 14, you did 5 damage, now it's 9. The penalty kicks in last, lowering it, but not below 1, as per the spell description. As opposed to the interpration that the penalty applies first as if the guy has dex 4 and you're then doing 5 damage and reducing him to 0, which I think is wrong.

If you're just now hitting level 6...I thought Extra Spell and Extra slot could only be used on a spell level up to one below the highest spell level you can currently cast, maybe i'm mistaken. In any case, not to criticize you or anything, but...I would have made different choices...