sneak attack and ray spells

[Andion Isurand]

Archmage's Arcane Reach + Arcane Trickster's Sneak Attack = EVIL

 

[Hypersmurf]

Archmage's Arcane Reach + Arcane Trickster's Sneak Attack = EVIL

Why? Arcane Reach is a ranged touch attack, so it's still limited to sneak attacks within 30 feet, even if you take the Arcana twice.

You might as well use Ray of Frost...?

-Hyp.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm concerned about touch attacks letting you get sneak attack damage. Isn't the point of a touch attack that you don't need to hit a specific (i.e. vulnerable) part of the creature, but just to hit it at all for the spell to work? (For instance, you can hit someone right on the shield and the spell still works.) And isn't the point of a sneak attack that you strike "a vital spot" with "deadly accuracy" (PHB 30)? These seem somewhat incompatible. I would think that you'd need to make a normal melee or ranged attack if you wanted to target a vital spot for sneak attack damage, just as you need to do if you want to get unarmed strike damage when attacking with a touch range spell. This is different from critical hits (which you can definitely be done with a touch attack) because a critical hit is based not on special circumstances like a sneak attack is, but on a random chance of hitting a vital spot.

Consider this: If you get it right in your heart, you're in real trouble (i.e. done for). Now, usually, you are protected there (good armor, or natural armor to protect the vitals). But with my touch attack, I just ignore the armor. I use my shocking grasp right above your heart, and your armor works as a great conductor.


What I really find funny is that you can now sneak attack with meteor swarm (touch attack for the meteors to avoid allowing saving throws). But you must get within 30 ft of the enemy - and the meteors have a blast radius of 40 ft. Call that commitment.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Consider this: If you get it right in your heart, you're in real trouble (i.e. done for). Now, usually, you are protected there (good armor, or natural armor to protect the vitals). But with my touch attack, I just ignore the armor. I use my shocking grasp right above your heart, and your armor works as a great conductor.

Yes, that's right. I was borrowing too much logic from the need to use a regular attack when striking unarmed for lethal damage. In that case, you need a higher roll to avoid armor with your fist (or whatever) and hit a tender spot, even though the spell doesn't require this for its damage. In the case of sneak attacking with a touch attack, you're not trying to add lethal bludgeoning damage with your fist and work off of that for your extra d6s. You're targeting vitals but ignoring armor as if it weren't there. This is reflected in the fact that your sneak attack damage is of the same type as the spell damage (e.g. electrical for Shocking Grasp).

Cheers,
MC

 

[kigmatzomat]

You're targeting vitals but ignoring armor as if it weren't there. This is reflected in the fact that your sneak attack damage is of the same type as the spell damage (e.g. electrical for Shocking Grasp).

Yep, which get's really nasty if the target has an elemental vulnerability that doubles damage. Had a rogue 10/sorcerer 1 sneak attack a fire giant with ray of frost. Ended up doing 2d3+10d6 for nearly 40pts of damage. Eeek.

 

[brehobit]

Yep, which get's really nasty if the target has an elemental vulnerability that doubles damage. Had a rogue 10/sorcerer 1 sneak attack a fire giant with ray of frost. Ended up doing 2d3+10d6 for nearly 40pts of damage. Eeek.

I can see the post-adventure gathering.

"How did you kill the fire giant?"

"I froze his b*lls off."

Seriously though, would the backstab damage get multiplied?

 

[TabulaRasa]

Seriously though, would the backstab damage get multiplied?

Yes. It says somewhere that the sneak attack damage is of the same energy as the spell that deal the normal damage.
So with a ray of frost the sneak attack damage also is Cold damage and therefore doubled.

/Tabula

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Just a reminder that if you're using 3.5, it's +50% damage, not double damage. That's still a plenty vicious use for a cantrip!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You're right. Just think about that: Arcana trickster using polar ray on a fire creature. Ouch! That's something even dragons can fear.

 

[kender]

Think also of this, an arcane trickster with 3.5E Melf's Acid Arrow... could be something all enemies with SR should fear...

I'm just thinking of my AT actually in the City of the Spider Queen module....