So, do you feel lucky, punk?

[Xarlen]

So, do you feel lucky, Punk?

Are there any circumstancial penalties to the closeness of someone, and the person being flat footed, when it comes to reflex saves?

For example, we have a rogue sneaking up behind someone, moving into threat range. The rogue puts a wand of lightning to the victim's back, and fires.

Is there any penalty to the person's saving throw because he was A) Flat footed, and B) The lightning bolt went off basicly AGAINST him?

I would think there's a difference between staring at a mage, and readying to dart away from a lightning bolt, and getting hit with one by surprise.

 

[1337 h4xor]

the only difference would be the rogue would add his sneak atack damage i beleive.

 

[James McMurray]

Since the attack did not require a roll to hit, the rogue could not get his sneak attack damage. Only weaponlike spells get that benefit.

However, the victim is most definitely losing his dex bonus due to being flatfooted. As a DM, I would also give a -2 circumstance penalty to the save.

 

[Xarlen]

If the person loses his dex bonus, then why not have his dex bonus not apply to his Ref save?

But a -2 works.

 

[1337 h4xor]

well that would all be house rules as you never lose your bonuses to save for any reason. even unconcious people get a will save at no penalty.

 

[Darklone]

Theoretically even unconscious people get a Reflex save, right?

Funny.

Well, let's call it luck.

 

[Caliban]

Theoretically even unconscious people get a Reflex save, right?

No, unconcious people are "helpless" and helpless people automatically fail Reflex saves. They would still get Fort and Will saves though.

 

[Thanee]

I do not allow Dex bonus on Reflex saves while being flat-footed, but I'm aware, that this is a house rule.

In that case, I would probably not even allow a save at all, just roll for full damage.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thanee - do you disallow Dex bonus to Reflex saves when its denied to AC, or specifically when flat-footed, or both? Does Uncanny Dodge affect this at all?

And do you allow Evasion when Dex bonus is denied?

-Hyp.

 

[Jeremy]

I wanted to add some covering rules to the game to make ambushes or treasons a little more threatening.

Say for instance a new action that can be taken in a partial round is to cover your opponent. This can be done to a flat footed opponent who is in your threatened area, or a flat footed opponent who is within 30 feet of a ranged weapon holder.

What the covered victim chooses to do is up to them, but while talks are made, the covering aggressor has a readied action to strike down his victim. Should the victim reach for blade or spell component he provokes the readied action which is automatically considered a critical threat IF it hits. Even if it hits, it must be confirmed as normal and the victim must be subject to critical hits for it to matter.

This leaves your AC to still help you, or feats like quick draw to help defend you if you think you'll survive to start combat, but also makes ambushes by 10 armed crossbowmen more dangerous (assuming they are capable of hitting the AC of their targets---which is by no means certain. ).

That's just something I've been thinking about forever.