So, if you've accepted the Warlock's 9d6 Eldritch Blast; what if it healed?

[Koewn]

What if a modification of the Warlock class turned it's Eldritch Blast mechanic into, basically, Cure X Wounds, so that at first level, a melee touch would heal it's target of 1d8 damage, up to 9d8 at 20th?

Should it be kept at Xd6?

Would a ray be OK?

Will anyone respond; as the ones most likely are the same who tinker with low-magic, healing, and clerics, and they're busy being rushed to the hospital because their brains exploded thinking about Cure Light Wounds as a Spell-Like Ability for a PC? (just kidding. I like low-magic and low-healing, myself)

For those who deem it crazy; three bits:

First off, would it make a difference if it merely converted actual damage to subdual damage?

Secondly, what, at the end of the day, is the difference between the Warlock blasting a...ogre for 3d6, and a healing-warlock healing a fighter for 3d6 so it can hit the ogre for 1d8+3 a couple more times? In other words, if one would view it as channeling damage-dealing dice through another PC, does it seem all that bad?

Lastly, it had been stated on the Wizard's boards unoffical Q&A with one of the Warlock's designers that they based it's powers on what 'a sorceror or wizard of equivalent level could do 5 times a day'. I may have that quote out of context, but I'm running with it anyway

A 1st level cleric with a 13 Wisdom and the Healing domain can heal 3d8+3 + 3 (cure minor cantrip) per day. That's anywhere from 9 to 30 points in a day.

The 1st level healing warlock, at Xd6, at five times in a day, is 5d6, or 5 to 30.

Granted, the cleric is spent whereas the healing-warlock still has more (and another invocation-type thing), but those least invocations (the combative ones) are just about as good combat-wise as a first-level cleric armed and armored in melee.

At tenth level, the healing-warlock does 5d6*5, or 30d6 healing at our five-a-day mark. The same cleric could possibly put out 6 Minors, 5 CLW, 5 CMW, 4 CSW, 4 CCW, 1 Mass CLW, and a Raise Dead, which counts for a lot of healing dice The hit point value of half that cleric's spell load is about 24d8+98 (assuming the mass cure light only hits one target and I didn't add that up wrong, 3 0th, 3 1st, 3 2nd, 2 34d, 2 4th, 1 5th, ignoring Raise Dead.).

So that's healing-warlock [30->180], or cleric [122->290].

So there we are.

Koewn

(That +X/level on the end of the Cure X Wounds makes a lot of difference, eh?)

 

[Rystil Arden]

The problem with a healing warlock is the same problem with allowing the PCs to permanently gain the ability Fast Healing 1. If you have a healing warlock and a bunch of fighter-sorts, you can fight as many CR-equivalent encounters in a day as you can find things to kill. It won't matter as much if all your fights are one giant boss fight with no build-up, or if the party already has to stop for its two arcane casters and the psion, but for the typical 4 fights a day, the healing warlock will throw a monkey-wrench in the plans, whereas the blasting warlock will not (he might help smash things, but he isn't going to be able to make sure the party, including himself, can continue on infinitely).

 

[Crothian]

Healing is more powerful then damage. So, I wouldn't increase it to d8s. This would bascially allow infinite healing over time. So, after every battle the group would be at full health. I think it would be a bad idea.

 

[Koewn]

It won't matter as much if all your fights are one giant boss fight with no build-up, or if the party already has to stop for its two arcane casters and the psion, but for the typical 4 fights a day, the healing warlock will throw a monkey-wrench in the plans, whereas the blasting warlock will not (he might help smash things, but he isn't going to be able to make sure the party, including himself, can continue on infinitely).

That's a good point; a party of 4:Fighter, Rogue, Warlock, Healing-Warlock, would be quite the movers and shakers, assuming the DM doesn't start making them go through the Exhaustion/Fatigued steps just for doing too much in a day.

What if, as I posited above, those Xd6's simply converted actual damage to non-lethal damage? That would certainly put a limit on the day, but is that too little compared to the normal cleric?

Alternatively, let's say that the Healing-Warlock put out d4s for a second - a 10th level healing-warlock would throw down 5d4 a pop. The target takes 5d4 Actual Healing, and another 5d4 of NonLethal Damage Conversion - a fighter with 80 HP total, who is down to 35 HP, is hit for a 18 point heal from the healing-warlock. The fighter's now at 71 HP and 18 Nonlethal Damage (which is unaffected by subsequent heals) - that's 35+18+18, that second 18 is written down as NonLethal damage.

Eventually, the party will be too damaged to go on - if that fighter takes another 50 HP damage, and is hit for a full 20 points of heal, he'd go to (21+20+20) 61 HP, and (18+20) 38 NonLethal Damage. He then proceeds to fall 30 ft for 18 points. The healing-warlock hits him for 10 points - he's at (43+10+10) 63 HP, and (38+10) 48 Nonlethal. That's only 15 more points of damage he can take before being staggered. If they stop then, it'll take that 10th level fighter 5 hours to rest, but he's probably ready for a nap anyway.

Certainly, more paperwork. I didn't do Xd8/2 because division isn't fun. Rolling d4s isn't fun either, but hey. Maybe Xd6/2 since d6 are more common and fun to roll?

The other side-effect of this is that all those healing-warlock-clerics in the hamlets are only pulling out 1d4 heals on your commoners. A healing-warlock can take a commoner from -9 to 4 hp, but that commoner's still resting for 4 hours later. That's a little better than bleeding-to-healthy in a standard action.

Healing is more powerful then damage. So, I wouldn't increase it to d8s.

Howabout the half-n-half solution above? It's d8-ish, but with a twist.

Koewn

 

[Rystil Arden]

Umm...can't the half-and-half healing warlock heal the half of his previous healing that is nonlethal damage afterwards? If not, why can he heal lethal damage and not nonlethal damage?

 

[Koewn]

Umm...can't the half-and-half healing warlock heal the half of his previous healing that is nonlethal damage afterwards? If not, why can he heal lethal damage and not nonlethal damage?

Nope, I made that distinction though in the first example. I admit it's a kludge, and is not technically creating Nonlethal damage, but this is House Rules so making sense is secondary. Why can he heal actual damage and not nonlethal damage? Got me We'll just assume that's how his 'type' of healing works. Like how Cure Light Wounds can't touch 'vile' damage.

a fighter with 80 HP total, who is down to 35 HP, is hit for a 18 point heal from the healing-warlock. The fighter's now at 71 HP and 18 Nonlethal Damage (which is unaffected by subsequent heals) - that's 35+18+18, that second 18 is written down as NonLethal damage.

So, we change their name to....oh, what the hey. Damage Points, (since fatigue and exhaustion are already conditions, and I can't find a good word) and say they stack/combine with Nonlethal Damage, and define the healing-warlock's power as not affecting Nonlethal Damage. It just converts half of Hit Point damage to Damage Points.

Given the relative rarity of nonlethal damage, I don't think it'd be too much a bear to keep track of.

The only thing that bothers me with this is having a PC with 80 HP, and they're at 70. The healing-warlock hits them for 15 points of healing. So what's their status? At 80 HP with 15 'Damage Points/NonLethal'? Seems ignoble. What about having them at 85 HP, 5 of which are temporary, and 15 Damage/NonLethal Points, with the condition that you can't continue to heal someone over their normal HP total? Alternatively, if the roll is higher than what is needed to bring the target to full hitpoints, take half the amount needed to get the target to full HP and apply it as Damage Points - so they'd be at 80 HP with 5 Damage/NonLethal points.


Koewn

 

[Nifft]

... define the healing-warlock's power as not affecting Nonlethal Damage. It just converts half of Hit Point damage to Damage Points.

Given the relative rarity of nonlethal damage, I don't think it'd be too much a bear to keep track of.

In a world full of Healocks, nonleathal would rule. People would be sneak-attacking with saps and smacking you with their fists, so they could get you unconscious and ready for a C-d-G. Fights might be more realistic (first guy unconscious is easy to kill), but far less "cinematic" or fantastical.

Monks as overpowered. Interesting. Healock would be hard to fit in any kind of world.

-- N

 

[Koewn]

In a world full of Healocks, nonleathal would rule. People would be sneak-attacking with saps and smacking you with their fists, so they could get you unconscious and ready for a C-d-G. Fights might be more realistic (first guy unconscious is easy to kill), but far less "cinematic" or fantastical.

Monks as overpowered. Interesting. Healock would be hard to fit in any kind of world.

-- N

Healocks. I like that.

And another good point. It's so much easier to post half-baked ideas here for cooking rather than attempting to think for myself

Aside from removing the stacking of Damage Points and Nonlethal Points, I see no way to fix that. I'd hate to create a third point-pool, but since it's already been done in other places, why the heck not. This is kinda coming out to be an odd version of the old Vitality/Wound Points system.

I'd keep the stacking for the 'Grim/Gritty' version of this though.

Koewn

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think a good rule of thumb is if a new class feature would cause you to need to rework the damage system to not break it, then it might be a better idea to just change the class...

 

[Koewn]

I think a good rule of thumb is if a new class feature would cause you to need to rework the damage system to not break it, then it might be a better idea to just change the class...

True, that. The good and bad part about d20 is that it's simple; especially the damage, healing, and 'time' measurements.

Combat and most activities don't make a PC just plain old 'tired'. Hacking through a gelatinous cube should wear someone out for a day. Channelling divine power should make someone ready for a nap. Releasing the arcane magicks pent up in your brain since dawn ought to perhaps give you a touch of a headache. The motion control involved in sneaking across the courtyard at night, tumbling behind barrels to avoid guards and sapping the ones you can't ought to make a rogue want to steal a bed.

But it doesn't, so 'unlimited healing' becomes a logistical nightmare. What this 'damage point pool' does in the end is force the issue of only so much being able to be done in a day. You'd have the exact same problem with a party that keeps itself in Cure X items- wands, potions, etc. Granted they have to spend money to do this; but they can make more money becuase they've got more healing, so they can make more money, so they can buy more healing, so they can make more money, so they can by more crack...(oops. Wrong commercial) - because they can poke monsters for 16 hours a day.

Anyway. Not that it matters. This isn't a class you can introduce into a DND game without wrapping an alternate system around it. It was worth the post just to see the points I'd have missed, and to work out what would have to be changed in DND itself to accomodate it.

Koewn