So once again- adding templates to Solos?

[Matrix Sorcica]

Do they become elite solos? That is, do they get an awful lot of hp and +2 to saves and an additional Action Point etc.?

Thanks.

 

[Obryn]

Do they become elite solos? That is, do they get an awful lot of hp and +2 to saves and an additional Action Point etc.?

Thanks.

I don't think there's any such thing as an elite solo.

I would certainly not give them an extra +2 to Saves or extra Action Points.

-O

 

[hamishspence]

I personally like the idea

Primarily because it enebles old favorites; dragons with spells (wizard template) Dragon liches which are actually mostly the original creature, not the present-day dracolich. And so on.

Since the phrasing was "Adding template to a monster makes it an elite monster", not "adding template to a standard monster makes it an elite monster" it might be an interesting idea.

Tricky part is rules need slight adjustments. Instead of Counts as Two Monsters, it needs to be "counts as 1 extra monster" and instead of 1 action point, 1 Extra action point.

so it sould have extra powers and HP, count as 6 monsters, not 5, for XP and encounter build, and have 3 action points and +7 to saves.

might be a shade overpowered. Or might not, given how easy it is to get a monsters saves against effects reduced.

Its an alternative to simply saying "they only mean standard monsters"

 

[Av3rnus]

Tricky part is rules need slight adjustments. Instead of Counts as Two Monsters, it needs to be "counts as 1 extra monster" and instead of 1 action point, 1 Extra action point.

so it sould have extra powers and HP, count as 6 monsters, not 5, for XP and encounter build, and have 3 action points and +7 to saves.

might be a shade overpowered. Or might not, given how easy it is to get a monsters saves against effects reduced.

Its an alternative to simply saying "they only mean standard monsters"

Interesting idea. My only thought was to take the guidelines for upgrading a monster to a solo, try applying them in reverse, and then add on a template to make it a solo again, although obviously of a different nature from what it started as. I'm not certain how well that would work either.

 

[keterys]

You're really much better off just altering the stats for the solo, rather than applying the template. Just look at the powers and swap in appropriate ones, make minor modifications to make things more appropriate, etc.

Though, clearly a triple elite Solo with +11 to saves and 5 action points would be great. Right? Umm.

 

[proto128]

Interesting idea. My only thought was to take the guidelines for upgrading a monster to a solo, try applying them in reverse, and then add on a template to make it a solo again, although obviously of a different nature from what it started as. I'm not certain how well that would work either.

Interesting, though to make it a solo again you'd have to use two templates (IIRC) or simply handwave its hit points. I don't know how much you'd gain from the work involved; then again, I'm lazy and try to find the best solution that takes the least amount of effort.

I'm wondering if you could just take a solo, apply the abilities from the template (excluding extra HP, save bonuses, etc.), and count the monster as its level +2. I can already see some problems with that - problems similar to those in 3.x with applying templates - but it could be a quick-n-dirty solution.

EDIT: Keterys's suggestion works for me, too.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

For simplicity's sake, I consider Solo stats (massive HP, bonuses to defenses, saving throws, etc.) to be the highest any given monster can achieve. Further templates simply add more abilities the monster can use.

I guess it's a house rule, but it would seem to give the bump I'm looking for without messing with the math too much.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Primarily because it enebles old favorites; dragons with spells (wizard template) Dragon liches which are actually mostly the original creature, not the present-day dracolich. And so on.

Since the phrasing was "Adding template to a monster makes it an elite monster", not "adding template to a standard monster makes it an elite monster" it might be an interesting idea.

Tricky part is rules need slight adjustments. Instead of Counts as Two Monsters, it needs to be "counts as 1 extra monster" and instead of 1 action point, 1 Extra action point.

so it sould have extra powers and HP, count as 6 monsters, not 5, for XP and encounter build, and have 3 action points and +7 to saves.

might be a shade overpowered. Or might not, given how easy it is to get a monsters saves against effects reduced.

Its an alternative to simply saying "they only mean standard monsters"

I agree with you except for the action point and save bonuses. Maybe the action point, but the save bonus is going to basically make sure they succeeds. I don't think its very easy to reduce saves for a monster, its only the orb wizards that can, and the max for them is -11, at level 28, starting with an 18 in wisdom, and going demigod. And thats only for one effect of one spell. At level 15 that same wizard is going to have -8, giving a flat 50/50 for this elite solo type monster, the rest of the time it will have a 20% failure chance, and a 10% vs. non-wizard abilities. Thats effectively saying, you might as well just not use any save ends abilities, because they will end at the end of their next turn anyway.

The action point might be okay, considering the party is already going to have them out actioned, but it is still going to be really challenging, even for a level equivalent party of 6.

 

[bardolph]

Do they become elite solos? That is, do they get an awful lot of hp and +2 to saves and an additional Action Point etc.?

Thanks.

The DMG doesn't give any guidelines for adding templates to Solos. Solo creatures are already tough enough to take on a party by themselves, so really all you want to do is add levels.

You can, however, add a template to an elite, which would make a solo.

 

[bardolph]

Primarily because it enebles old favorites; dragons with spells (wizard template) Dragon liches which are actually mostly the original creature, not the present-day dracolich. And so on.

Generally, I would avoid the class templates, only because having creatures with too many powers makes bookkeeping a nightmare. Better is to have one good power on a recharge, than 2-3 separate powers usable once per encounter.