So..tell me about Eberron

Hairfoot said:
The 3E model is different because it's specific. The player whose PC is wielding a greatsword in each hand can point to the rules which say he leaps 30 feet into the battle, then takes his whirlwind attack against 8 opponents, killing all of them. That sort of action wasn't standard in previous editions.
Hyperbole is fun!

Anyway, an 8th-level 1st-edition fighter runs into the middle of 8 kobolds and takes 8 attacks, killing all of them. That's without even touching double weapon specialization (couldn't you triple specialize as well? it's been a while).

2nd-edition... don't even get me started on the myriad opporunities for over-the-top cheesiness (especially involving two-weapon fighting).

Your axe to grind is with D&D, not Eberron.
 

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I find that an odd complaint. Given that the median character level in Eberron seems to be much lower than in, say, Forgotten Realms, how are you getting to the conclusion that Eberron supports "superheroes" moreso than FR, or even Greyhawk?

Or are you making some claim about characters being superheroes at lower levels? I'm not sure I understand your complaint at all, and what little I seem to be able to glean from it I fundamentally disagree with.
 


Hairfoot said:
Shall I say "anime", and really stir things up?
Sorry, that's deliberately provocative. I'm not here to troll.



The elements of Eberron I don't take to are the same ones that have been talked up in this thread:
falcWP said:
the PCs are going to be the heroes in Eberron
falcWP said:
the feel of the setting ...over the top action
Hobo said:
That's right; a PC group made up of a female changeling rogue named Mystique, a tiefling shadowdancer named Nightcrawler, a female shifter named Rahne
You have to accept that things you think of as positives are negatives for others, perhaps including the OP.
 

Hairfoot said:
Monkey Grip + Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. Shall I say "anime", and really stir things up?

Really? I... I don't see those in the ECS, and I know they're not in the PHB. So how is that an Eberron problem, precisely?

And while some of the things that *you* dislike may be problems for the OP, or anyone else undecided on Eberron who is reading this thread (given that the OP has already purchased his ECS based on this thread, I'm guessing the points that were raised pushed him in that direction), I have to point out that nothing you've mentioned has really seemed to be a problem with Eberron. All your problems are with 3.5 Edition D&D.

Unless the whole 'You could have a group that somewhat resembles the X-Men in their abilities' thing (which was mentioned specifically as a joke or an amusing one-shot) is something you have a major issue with. And even with that...

-A changeling rogue as Mystique. Ok, that's Eberron specific. But a human bard who knows Disguise self can do the same thing. So can a human rogue with a Hat of Disguise. So we could have Mystique in any setting, very, very, very easily.

-A Tiefling Shadowdancer for Nightcrawler. Not Eberron specific. Works in any setting. Probably works better in the Forgotten Realms, where there's a Lesser Tiefling available.

-A shifter for Wolfsbane... ok, yeah, that's Eberron specific, and there isn't a perfect core way to replicate her... beyond a werewolf. Which, yes, means a LA, but gives her the ability to turn into a full wolf, which a Shifter lacks... so you're sacrificing playability to get closer to the inspiration.

So, to recap on your points of what you dislike in Eberron:

PCs are heroes. Ignoring the general issues from 3.5, or even D&D as a whole (PCs being able to beat up lots of bad guys), I still don't quite get why this is a problem for you, since my point (which I've made a few times) is that the PCs aren't going to be outclassed and upstaged by half the NPCs in the setting once they get to the higher levels. Is it that you want the PCs to be average, fairly regular adventurers who aren't really noteworthy? If that's who they are, why are people even hiring them, rather than someone better?

Over the top action. You and I apparently have very different definitions on what this means. For me, its swashbuckling fun - daring leaps over chasms, hanging on to the rope ladder swinging off the side of an airship for dear life, ending up in a duel on the catwalk above a stage while a play is being performed, things like that (which reminds me, I need to work some of that stuff in to my game...). Its what makes Action Points so great for the setting - when you really need to, you can ascend just beyond the level that a normal person is on and get in to that real 'movie character' mode for an instant. Do something that is just on the other side of impossible. Your definition of over the top seems to be people dual-wielding greatswords and using whirlwind attack.

And the bit about folks playing the X-Men. Which, one, as I noted, was mentioned as a one-shot or as a joke, and two, as I noted, isn't at all specific to Eberron.
 
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We're going around in circles now. I've made it clear that I see Eberron encouraging suprahuman antics which are rare in other settings. I've also made it clear that I see Eberron as embracing and pushing the "power creep" of 3E. So, my dislikes are about the system and the way Eberron relates to it.

As for the Star-Trek D&D adventuring party, I am firmly of the opinion that exotic races and classes are a ready-made substitute for player creativity - in an Eberron campaign or elsewhere - so I view with some distaste a setting which implies that teams of shape-changing devils and monsters are a common sight.
 

Hairfoot said:
Monkey Grip + Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. Shall I say "anime", and really stir things up?
Well, first of all, Monkey Grip does not technically let you wield greatswords one-handed. Furthermore, it contains the provision, "You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off-hand." (Complete Warrior, page 103)

None of this has anything to do with Eberron, of course.
 

Hairfoot said:
As for the Star-Trek D&D adventuring party, I am firmly of the opinion that exotic races and classes are a ready-made substitute for player creativity
Wow. Now that's insulting.
 
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