D&D 5E So this is how D&D 5e dies, a beautiful start only to die in disgrace because of mismanagement. RIP 5e

[Vaalingrade]

Man, you really don't understand business at all.

You literally just said:

What is best for the consumer is never a concern for a business. A business only concerns itself with what is possible to sell to a consumer.

If you don't find that to be anti-consumer... maybe you understand business too well.

 

[Jd Smith1]

You literally just said:

If you don't find that to be anti-consumer... maybe you understand business too well.

Recalling the OGL will not affect consumers, only competitors.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I would change the word "planning" to "strong-arming", but otherwise I agree.

Potato, potato.

Very few people need a cutting edge Iphone, but with the right advertising, they will faithfully buy them.

The key to sales isn't selling the consumer what he needs; it is to convince the consumer that he needs what you are selling.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Potato, potato.

Very few people need a cutting edge Iphone, but with the right advertising, they will faithfully buy them.

The key to sales isn't selling the consumer what he needs; it is to convince the consumer that he needs what you are selling.

Why I hate sales. I could never be that guy.

 

[bloodtide]

Don't worry! D&D has been Dead before. And Undead Before. And Lost and Forgotten.

And it came back........... It will rise again (or maybe not)

I am relatively certain that face-to-face RPGing is here to stay, much as live theater has survived a couple of millenia, remains still in the face of motion pictures and television. Of course the relative percentage of people playing P&P games thus will decline as technology improves and the online and computer RPGs come ever closer to the playing live with a group of friends.

— ENWorld, Q&A with Gary Gygax part 1, 2002

 

[Irlo]

Businesses are run by people, and, cynical though I am, I have to acknowledge that people have complex motivations, goals, and values beyond maximizing profit. People can build and maintain their businesses without tearing down others. Businesses can develop partnerships. It's not all competetion and scraping out every last possible nickel.

 

[Dausuul]

All those people who said we were over reacting to monetization seem to be very quiet.

I was one of those people. I didn't really see how the monetization push could cause problems.

I had insufficient imagination.

 

[Zardnaar]

I was one of those people. I didn't really see how the monetization push could cause problems.

I had insufficient imagination.

At best it's corporate code for milk the fanbase.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Why I hate sales. I could never be that guy.

It takes a special sort. I couldn't do it.

 

[Dausuul]

At best it's corporate code for milk the fanbase.

Yeah, I got that part. I just didn't realize how much room there was to go down from the best case.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Recalling the OGL will not affect consumers, only competitors.

I'm sure the mob of enraged consumers is purely coincidental.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

That's an easy one. But it's not just that. Look at, inter alia, Facebook (Meta). They have five scandals a year that make the OGL thing look like chump change- but is anyone here canceling their account. Nope.

Amazon? I mean, treating workers nice would be good and all, but I gotta get my products and I gotta watch my Hobbit show!

How about just flat-out lying about things.... remember the VW Automotive group scandal? I do! Do you bank at Wells Fargo? Anyone keeping their own running tally of their fun? Do you watch the Paramount network to get your Star Trek goodness... well have you bothered looking at the long and disturbing toxic culture under Moonves? Johnson & Johnson? DuPont?

I get the desire to ramp all the rhetoric up to 11, for that extra push over the cliff, but it's getting to the point of parody. This might have been a terrible decision, but it doesn't come close to measuring up to the true corporate malfeasance we have seen.

I don’t buy VW products and will not. I bank at Wells Fargo personally but I avoid them professionally and am planning on moving my banking once I get a chance to detangle the several decades I have with them. I do warn people away from them. There is another bank that I had a bad experience with and then I do not do business with them.

I had a hotel chain screw me over quite a while ago and I never stayed there again and directed (I keep a vague track of it) well over $50K of conference money away from them.

The theory that is does not matter to anyone is not absolute and people it does matter for tend to be loud about it.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I'm sure the mob of enraged consumers is purely coincidental.

People get worked up about all sorts of things, real and imagined. Never let a mob be your guide.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People get worked up about all sorts of things, real and imagined. Never let a mob be your guide.

Or anyone who unironically says 'it's just business'.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I don’t buy VW products and will not. I bank at Wells Fargo personally but I avoid them professionally and am planning on moving my banking once I get a chance to detangle the several decades I have with them. I do warn people away from them. There is another bank that I had a bad experience with and then I do not do business with them.

I had a hotel chain screw me over quite a while ago and I never stayed there again and directed (I keep a vague track of it) well over $50K of conference money away from them.

The theory that is does not matter to anyone is not absolute and people it does matter for tend to be loud about it.

VW did 254 billion euros last year, and Wells Fargo 19 billion USD.

It seems they will survive your displeasure.

But I get your point. I personally would never buy a d20 product.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Or anyone who unironically says 'it's just business'.

But it is just business. This is a business, employing a business tactic. The mob wants to make it into some sort of weird moral issue, but in the end, it is about a business that owns a property, and a bunch of smaller businesses who assumed that their ability to make use of that property was both free and eternal.

No baby seals are being clubbed. In the end, it is about which capitalist continues to draw a profit, and which do not.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

People get worked up about all sorts of things, real and imagined. Never let a mob be your guide.

I am in the “just business” camp. I however think these moves—-all about business—-are not good for the community or game.

So I am fully out. But it’s less a crusade and more just rebelling against being controlled. Their drive to do this is logical. And my resistance is as well.

We will see if the reluctance I have to participate along with the reluctance of others is enough to cause things to change—-as a result of amoral business considerations.

So far there are a lot of folks yelling. We shall see if it impacts the bottom line.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I am in the “just business” camp. I however think these moves—-all about business—-are not good for the community or game.

So I am fully out. But it’s less a crusade and more just rebelling against being controlled. Their drive to do this is logical. And my resistance is as well.

We will see if the reluctance I have to participate along with the reluctance of others is enough to cause things to change—-as a result of amoral business considerations.

So far there are a lot of folks yelling. We shall see if it impacts the bottom line.

An interesting viewpoint.

As a d100 user, I am hoping that WotC's actions push a lot of small-time publishers into either innovation in new systems, or to supporting d100 systems.

The impact on d20 gaming does not concern me. The impact on the gaming community as a whole will, IMO, be minimal either way, although if WotC pushes D&D into a more digital model, that will undoubtedly benefit me as an online gamer.

As to the number of people of people yelling, I am dubious. While this site has a good number up in arms, even if none are just engaging in drama for the sake of drama, that isn't a large number in terms of WotC's fan base. I am certain that if this turns into a protracted struggle, the deeper pockets will prevail, and most people will lose interest.

 

[Azzy]

But it is just business. This is a business, employing a business tactic. The mob wants to make it into some sort of weird moral issue, but in the end, it is about a business that owns a property, and a bunch of smaller businesses who assumed that their ability to make use of that property was both free and eternal.

No baby seals are being clubbed. In the end, it is about which capitalist continues to draw a profit, and which do not.

I'll take "Successful Arguments Against Capitalism" for $1,000, Alex.

 

[Lichbeard]

WOTC has gone cRaZy. It's all over the place now. MUCH more of their plans are out now WOTC is deader than dead. I must say, I NEVER saw this coming. I am truly impressed with the the way they destroyed themselves and D&D. I am not even mad anymore. This is a once in a lifetime view. We will not see this again I don't think. Lets all just join hands and enjoy the view. D&D will be back and in the meantime, we will have plenty of other rpg's to play.

Seriously go find the latest news. It's AMAZING.