D&D 5E So what exactly is Wizards working on?

[Ilbranteloth]

I am looking at the evidence and making an educated deduction from said evidence.

They have said that releasing product at the rate they did in 3E and 4E was not good for them. So they are slowing down their releases. Which they are doing.

Ipso facto... they do not seem to need the money they would have gotten from a more ambitious release schedule.

Or perhaps producing one book that sells 1000 copies is more profitable than 2 books that sell 500 copies each. That's because the first 499 sold are covering the cost of producing the book, and it's after you recoup your costs that you actually start to make money. I don't know the actual numbers, but being in manufacturing I know that your first printing/release usually just covers the cost of the project and you don't start making money until the 2nd.

This isn't a new problem. One of the main reasons TSR went bankrupt was they had too many products on the shelf and a lot of them weren't selling enough copies to recoup their costs, much less a profit. Giving each release its full life-cycle (whatever that is) is a smart idea or you run the risk of spreading people's hobby money too thin.

The thing I always find interesting is that the purpose of any business is to make money. Not necessarily a ton, but they have to show a profit, not to mention pay the salaries of the people that are making the cool stuff we want to buy. But they can't win. If they came out with a Forgotten Realms campaign guide now, people would complain they should have done Greyhawk. They give away free content and people complain they should have written more content and charged for it. Ad infinitum.

They just launched a new edition last year. From everything I can see it's been a great success. If it were my business would I do things differently? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think any of us know how WotC actually operates as a business. What I do know is that they have to make good business decisions in order to stay in business to keep producing the cool stuff you want.

Instead of "What's wrong with them, why can't they release more stuff?" how about "Hey, this is great stuff, can't wait for more" is an awesome way to show your support and have a little confidence that the folks writing this stuff actually enjoy what they're doing and want to make a cool game that you'll like. Compared to the reaction about the 4th edition, not to mention some of the material coming out at the tail end of the 2nd edition, I think they're doing a great job. People seem to really like the new edition and want more. That's a great sentiment, but instead of raking them over the coals every over every decision and release, why don't we give it some time to unfold and see where they go with it.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Just because I'm a random person on the Internet doesn't change the fact that I do have knowledge and that I may be right. Wizards is being super secret for no reason at all if that is what they are doing. Other companies give you a heads up on their products and what could be down the line. Keeping your info tight because you are scared of possible backlash due to a cancellation is an argument that is about a lame as the whole no PDF'S because of piracy.

Unless perhaps they are still deciding exactly which product will be next? They've been taking and responding to surveys, they've also stated the the first month of organized play can influence the future direction of the adventures.

The complaints we're seeing online because they 'cancelled' the Players Guide when WotC states they never announced it is exactly the sort of thing that might be a factor.

I don't necessarily like the current release schedule, but I do think that there is more to be revealed, and that the release schedule is light now because they plan on filling the scheduling holes with other product in future years, we just haven't gotten there yet.

So this year may be ramping up the 2 annual large adventures, along with more online content and AL adventures, and next year we'll start to see some other type of release, such as campaign specific material, or conversions of classic material between the large adventures.

And I don't think the issue is bloat, the issue is a healthy release schedule so the sales of one product aren't reduced because of the next product coming too quickly behind it. While we might think we know the facts, and some of us undoubtedly have more information than others, the only people that have the raw data and numbers is WotC. Customer suggestions, complaints, etc. are all important factors when making the decisions, but data often tells a very different story than what people think is going on. And there's no way we're going to get access to that data. Although I would guess that a careful study of the fluctuations in the release schedules of the 3rd and 4th editions along with Magic the Gathering would yield some very interesting information...

Ilbranteloth

 

[Reynard]

Maybe. But I personally believe that WotC knows better than you do what will be required to maintain their IP.

So you can claim it will fail all you want. But you will not convince me you know it more than the D&D department of WotC does.

First of all, I am not "claiming" anything : I used the word "imagine" for a reason. Nor am I trying to convince you of anything. Even if I could, I feel confident that your are not a suit at Hasbro and therefore have no power to change the things I would like to see changed.

Now, that said, you are absolutely right that Mearls said that the 3E and 4E release schedules were bad for D&D. What we don't know is "bad, how?" 3.5 lasted quite a long time and was popular enough that a competitor could pick up the torch and become the market leader in D&D's absence. 4E lasted fewer years by some counts (some folks go to the last DDI support rather than the last hard copy release). I have no doubt the release schedule was bad "bad" for Hasbro's finance department, but we don't know whether that means "in the red" or "not profitable enough" or something else entirely. During the life of 4E Mearls certainly wasn't pooh-poohing the release schedule, and if the release schedule was the primary problem would we have needed 5E at all? Why not just release essentials and then produce two APs a year for 4E?

Lots of questions and no real answers, leaving those of us who prefer a robustly supported D&D, like in editions past and PF currently, to wonder what has changed so drastically that the old model no longer works? Or, less charitably, how has WotC managed to screw the release schedule up so badly when they made such an awesome version of D&D?

 

[Jester David]

Wizards is being super secret for no reason at all if that is what they are doing. Other companies give you a heads up on their products and what could be down the line. Keeping your info tight because you are scared of possible backlash due to a cancellation is an argument that is about a lame as the whole no PDF'S because of piracy.

I'd disagree with this.
WotC got HUGE backlash all through 2011 after they cancelled almost a half-dozen products and endless speculation about what could have been. The cancelled projects grew to be larger than they would have been, far more important that the reality, because they were these theoretical things. Which only made the backlash worse.
So, they dialed back to announcing things on when ready. Which seemed to be a good idea given the backlash for the cancellation of the Adventurer's Handbook. People are/were pissed that was cancelled and upset it was replaced with a small PDF. I imagine this would only had been worse if WotC had hyped the Adventurer's Handbook back in August.

The fanbase has shown time and time again that we can't handle knowing too much.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Now, that said, you are absolutely right that Mearls said that the 3E and 4E release schedules were bad for D&D. What we don't know is "bad, how?"

Maybe even just in the sense that he was feeling overworked and under-appreciated when he said it?

During the life of 4E Mearls certainly wasn't pooh-poohing the release schedule, and if the release schedule was the primary problem would we have needed 5E at all? Why not just release essentials and then produce two APs a year for 4E?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was one possible plan. If Essentials backpedaling had been enough to satisfy the h4ters, maybe that would have happened? More likely, I think, once they realized that a game being merely not bad enough to repel new players who tried it still wouldn't necessarily attract new players to try it at a greater rate, they settled on the goal of consolidating existing players and and, if not attracting lapsed players, at least not shocking them with something unfamiliar. Thus 5e, which, while hardly a re-print of AD&D, does seem to be designed, primarily, to feel familiar and inoffensive to older players. That it may not hold the attention of quite as many of the few new players who try it for the first time doesn't matter if the goal is to grow the franchise in other arenas than the stubbornly tiny TTRPG market.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I'd disagree with this.
WotC got HUGE backlash all through 2011 after they cancelled almost a half-dozen products and endless speculation about what could have been. The cancelled projects grew to be larger than they would have been, far more important that the reality, because they were these theoretical things. Which only made the backlash worse.
So, they dialed back to announcing things on when ready. Which seemed to be a good idea given the backlash for the cancellation of the Adventurer's Handbook. People are/were pissed that was cancelled and upset it was replaced with a small PDF. I imagine this would only had been worse if WotC had hyped the Adventurer's Handbook back in August.

The fanbase has shown time and time again that we can't handle knowing too much.

Cancelling half a dozen products is a whole different thing here.

 

[Sailor Moon]

First of all, I am not "claiming" anything : I used the word "imagine" for a reason. Nor am I trying to convince you of anything. Even if I could, I feel confident that your are not a suit at Hasbro and therefore have no power to change the things I would like to see changed.

Now, that said, you are absolutely right that Mearls said that the 3E and 4E release schedules were bad for D&D. What we don't know is "bad, how?" 3.5 lasted quite a long time and was popular enough that a competitor could pick up the torch and become the market leader in D&D's absence. 4E lasted fewer years by some counts (some folks go to the last DDI support rather than the last hard copy release). I have no doubt the release schedule was bad "bad" for Hasbro's finance department, but we don't know whether that means "in the red" or "not profitable enough" or something else entirely. During the life of 4E Mearls certainly wasn't pooh-poohing the release schedule, and if the release schedule was the primary problem would we have needed 5E at all? Why not just release essentials and then produce two APs a year for 4E?

Lots of questions and no real answers, leaving those of us who prefer a robustly supported D&D, like in editions past and PF currently, to wonder what has changed so drastically that the old model no longer works? Or, less charitably, how has WotC managed to screw the release schedule up so badly when they made such an awesome version of D&D?

Mearls really doesn't seem to have a clue.

A heavy release schedule didn't kill those two editions so he really needs to stop making excuses. 4th edition as a whole killed 4th edition. A lot of people just didn't like rules and the direction the game was going in. 3rd edition is still going strong in it's latest reincarnation so it apparently didn't stay dead and Paizo has put out just as much material as Wizards did back then.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Unless perhaps they are still deciding exactly which product will be next? They've been taking and responding to surveys, they've also stated the the first month of organized play can influence the future direction of the adventures.

The complaints we're seeing online because they 'cancelled' the Players Guide when WotC states they never announced it is exactly the sort of thing that might be a factor.

I don't necessarily like the current release schedule, but I do think that there is more to be revealed, and that the release schedule is light now because they plan on filling the scheduling holes with other product in future years, we just haven't gotten there yet.

So this year may be ramping up the 2 annual large adventures, along with more online content and AL adventures, and next year we'll start to see some other type of release, such as campaign specific material, or conversions of classic material between the large adventures.

And I don't think the issue is bloat, the issue is a healthy release schedule so the sales of one product aren't reduced because of the next product coming too quickly behind it. While we might think we know the facts, and some of us undoubtedly have more information than others, the only people that have the raw data and numbers is WotC. Customer suggestions, complaints, etc. are all important factors when making the decisions, but data often tells a very different story than what people think is going on. And there's no way we're going to get access to that data. Although I would guess that a careful study of the fluctuations in the release schedules of the 3rd and 4th editions along with Magic the Gathering would yield some very interesting information...

Ilbranteloth

Please show me this massive uproar about the guide being cancelled.

You can't not put out another product because you are afraid you will lose sales on the first one. That's not the way RPG's work. Wizards has had raw data for years and they still couldn't get it right.

I would bet you almost anything that they could be actually stuck for ideas.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Why are you worried about whether I quit playing or not? The fact is I could continue to keep playing but I never buy another WoTc product again. I could turn more to Paizo for adventures and continue to give them my money.

It's a no win for WoTc and I can promise you that I wouldn't be the only one.

If you leave, don't forget to move your bookmarks.

Mearls really doesn't seem to have a clue.

A heavy release schedule didn't kill those two editions so he really needs to stop making excuses. 4th edition as a whole killed 4th edition. A lot of people just didn't like rules and the direction the game was going in. 3rd edition is still going strong in it's latest reincarnation so it apparently didn't stay dead and Paizo has put out just as much material as Wizards did back then.

Please show me this massive uproar about the guide being cancelled.

You can't not put out another product because you are afraid you will lose sales on the first one. That's not the way RPG's work. Wizards has had raw data for years and they still couldn't get it right.

I would bet you almost anything that they could be actually stuck for ideas.

Do you have access to WotC's data and surveys regarding this? They spent years compiling and analyzing data and determined from that to make 5E a slower release schedule.

Unless you have some evidence, your repeated complaint "I know better than they do!" is nothing more than your opinion.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Mearls really doesn't seem to have a clue.

A heavy release schedule didn't kill those two editions so he really needs to stop making excuses. 4th edition as a whole killed 4th edition. A lot of people just didn't like rules and the direction the game was going in. 3rd edition is still going strong in it's latest reincarnation so it apparently didn't stay dead and Paizo has put out just as much material as Wizards did back then.

I find it funny how all the things you think WotC did wrong just happen to coincide with all the things you don't like. It's almost like if you can't get what you want, then it's their fault and they're screwing up.

Let's try a different tack here. Tell me something that WotC did that you liked but which you also think was wrong. If you can answer that... maybe we can start coming to some sort of accord.