D&D (2024) So... What happened to sorcerer and ranger bonus spells?

[Remathilis]

For both Ranger and sorcerer, the extra spells were a correction from what they had initially presented in the PHB. Sorcerers were short spells, and this was a way to fix it withioout claiming errata. The revision of the classes will count as a "reset".

I expect that the subclasses for Sorcerer will not have a list of bonus spells; that's already rolled into the revision of the class.

It could still happen in a Ranger subclass, but I would not expect it to be standard -- an extra magical subclass might have access to thematic spells, though.

The problem though is that it makes the newer subs with bonus spells stronger than the earlier ones. For example, shadow sorcerer is a good subclass, but nowhere on the level of Clockwork Soul. Assuming you can still use Xanathar or Tasha with this revised PHB*, the subs with bonus spells will still be stronger than what we've seen so far. Hunter and Draconic are still lower tier compared to Gloomstalker or Aberrant mind.

* Insert 30 pages of debate about backwards compatibility here.

 

[Bacon Bits]

The problem though is that it makes the newer subs with bonus spells stronger than the earlier ones.

Wasn't that true already? Divine Soul and Clockwork Soul are both fairly popular since being released from what I've seen. Surely that has to do with having vastly improved spell lists. The old Sorcerer had an even worse time with it's spell list, being a subset of the Wizard list and being limited to 15 spells known.

It might be nice for WotC to publish a recommended conversion guide, but I'd imagine they just let things fall where they lie.

 

[Parmandur]

They were a kludge, I wouldn't expect to see then return.

 

[Remathilis]

Wasn't that true already? Divine Soul and Clockwork Soul are both fairly popular since being released from what I've seen. Surely that has to do with having vastly improved spell lists. The old Sorcerer had an even worse time with it's spell list, being a subset of the Wizard list and being limited to 15 spells known.

It might be nice for WotC to publish a recommended conversion guide, but I'd imagine they just let things fall where they lie.

My point was this could have been a point to update those older subs to match the design of newer ones, but that's not what we're seeing. Draconic and Wild (and whatever other two join them) could have gotten bonus spells akin to CS or AM. Which makes me wonder if the plan is ditch bonus spells (removing them from Xan and Tasha subs in subsequent reprints) or just keep it as a sporadically used ability that makes some subs better than others.

 

[Neonchameleon]

My point was this could have been a point to update those older subs to match the design of newer ones, but that's not what we're seeing. Draconic and Wild (and whatever other two join them) could have gotten bonus spells akin to CS or AM. Which makes me wonder if the plan is ditch bonus spells (removing them from Xan and Tasha subs in subsequent reprints) or just keep it as a sporadically used ability that makes some subs better than others.

And one of mine is that Draconic in specific shouldn't need a better spell list. It should instead be better physically. And that everyone has a better spell list than the old crippled version of the wizard list the sorc got. Draconic's a bit of an outlier (that the scales are worth only barely more than Mage Armour is a problem). The Draconic Sorcerer should be looking toward the Bladesinger role of "able to brawl in melee" rather than being a focused caster.

 

[Remathilis]

And one of mine is that Draconic in specific shouldn't need a better spell list. It should instead be better physically. And that everyone has a better spell list than the old crippled version of the wizard list the sorc got. Draconic's a bit of an outlier (that the scales are worth only barely more than Mage Armour is a problem). The Draconic Sorcerer should be looking toward the Bladesinger role of "able to brawl in melee" rather than being a focused caster.

Hexblade got bonus spells, I don't see where having a more martial sub precludes bonus spells.

I think that's part of my problem. Paladin, cleric, warlock and artificer all get bonus spells. Sorcerer, ranger and druid intermittently do. I'd prefer if there was more design continuity.

 

[Gadget]

While many of the base Sorcerer features were improved (meta magic, access to the whole Arcane list), and the Sorcerer only spells may be a welcome addition, I still have some reservations. Setting aside how good/bad some the new features/spells are, I seems that--now more than ever--Sorcerers are Wizards with a different style of shirt on. Not only that, but a different shirt that is always a tie dye. I'm not sure tying all sorcerers to a pseudo wild/chaos magic theme is something I like. I mean, it works for some, but not others.