So, what was the first product where D&D's soul was sold?

[MerricB]

Merric, what I'm talking about are game makers like "Front Porch Games" that establish one game, and move on to another.

In other words, they diversify, as I said. They make many different games.

(I'll also note that the market for board games is different from the market for RPGs).

Cheers!

 

[tx7321]

Storm, it is the difference between publishing books and board games. C&C is a company that has kept a pretty good focus on putting out a core system and then supporting it with mostly modules. And they are doing rather well for a small team.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Did it sing its own song all day and night?

He said he'd shut up, but he Lied.


(oooh that's gotta hurt!)

 

[thedungeondelver]

AMEN!

Hey, while I've got you here, would you please email me at

thedungeondelver@hotmail.com ?

Thank you.

 

[greywulf]

D&D's soul is very much alive and well, and always has been thankyouverymuch. I like this game in all it's incarnations for one reason or another. Heck, I hated 2nd Edition AD&D rules with a passion, but loved the funky settings, sheer depth of material and awesome ring-binder Monstrous Compendiums (remember those?).

IMHO, 3rd Edition is the best version to date. Sure, I might not like some of the rules - far fewer than in previous editions of AD&D - but I can change them! Core D&D is a benchmark for gamers everywhere, and we can all make it our own. That's magical.

There are better, more flexible, more consistent RPG systems out there (GURPS, HERO, Rolemaster to name just three) but no other system has the same creative spark, the same vitality, the same soul as D&D. That's why it's got such a passionate following, whatever the version.

So whatever the version, surely we agree.............

WE LOVE D&D!

Amen.

 

[Lanefan]

Time has already told it loud and clear: the vast majority of players for any system move to a new edition when it comes out. It's not about eye candy, it's about advances in game design, adaptation to changing styles of play, and better ways of doing things. You'll always find a small group of people that are satisfied with a system as it is and stay with it. Fine and good, but they shouldn't expect their desires to mirror the larger community.

There's another reason people move to the latest edition: they feel they have to, as they know it's the only edition that's going to get any "official" support from then on.

If you're playing an older edition and have all the material you think you'll need, then you can happily stay put when a new edition comes out; example are those here who resented the jump from 3 to 3.5, or who did not jump at all. But if you don't, or if you're someone who wants to play the "official" game (e.g. you do a lot of RPGA stuff) then you have to jump to the new edition whether you want to or not.

The 2e-to-3e jump was the most drastic, as there was almost no compatibility between the systems. 0-1-2 were not hard at all to tweak to suit each other, ditto for 3 and 3.5; I just wish the same level of compatibility could have been kept from 2-3. But, all water under the bridge now...

As for the OP's question, I'm not sure there was any one specific product - though many have been mentioned so far - that tipped the balance between soul and sell-out; it was more a slow general change of focus that each of us noticed at a different time or via being disappointed by a particular release. For me personally, the Dragonlance modules tipped the balance, followed later by just about all of 2e where I never felt I was getting my money's worth. At least when I buy a 3e release, I usually feel I'm getting good value, soul or no soul.

Lanefan

 

[Storm Raven]

Storm, it is the difference between publishing books and board games. C&C is a company that has kept a pretty good focus on putting out a core system and then supporting it with mostly modules. And they are doing rather well for a small team.

I don't have their sales figures, but I doubt that they are doing "rather well". Unless they are stupendously more successful than most game companies, they are making just enough money to stay afloat and feed themselves. As has been noted many times, "the gaming industry isn't". What you are talking about seems to me a recipe for gaming companies that are hobby businesses at best (as in, a hobby for those running them).

 

[GAAAHHH]

D&D's soul was devoured by Cthulhu in the first edition Deities and Demigods.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

As has been noted many times, "the gaming industry isn't". What you are talking about seems to me a recipe for gaming companies that are hobby businesses at best (as in, a hobby for those running them).

Aye, that's the financial reality for almost any games company in 2007.

There's one gaming company that's been financially well-run and consistently in the black since the 1980's, which is Games Workshop Group, Plc. And they don't rely on the sale of paper products or .pdfs; their niche is miniatures.

I believe it's true to say that almost all the others from the 1980's were atrociously poorly run from a financial point of view, either then or during the bad years of the 1990's, and a surprising number of them have gone to the wall. Nowadays, people are (unsurprisingly) reluctant to give up their day jobs.

The big secret is, gamers don't need paper products/pdf's. I think almost any visitor to this board could devise a simple RPG and play it for fun. So you have to keep prices very affordable, which makes it challenging to develop a quality product on a commercially viable basis.

But the other side of the coin is, a lot of us write* for pleasure rather than as a business. Given that we'd write anyway, why not sell it for a couple bucks?

*This is a lie. I don't write for pleasure; actually I hate writing. What I love is having written. The book with my name on the cover is the reward.

 

[kenobi65]

I don't have their sales figures, but I doubt that they are doing "rather well". Unless they are stupendously more successful than most game companies, they are making just enough money to stay afloat and feed themselves.

Indeed. If you're not WotC/WW/SJG, if you're selling in the four digits, you're doing pretty dang well.