So, what was the first product where D&D's soul was sold?

[Kishin]

There's one gaming company that's been financially well-run and consistently in the black since the 1980's, which is Games Workshop Group, Plc. And they don't rely on the sale of paper products or .pdfs; their niche is miniatures.

I don't know how valid an example Games Workshop is, since they're exclusively into war games. They have made some poor financial decisions though, like their unsuccessful attempt to bully online retailers out of the equation and force their customers to buy direct from them, paying their grotesquely inflated price.

Still, can't deny that they're making money.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Did you say Black Album or Black Flag? Black Flag never sold out!

I myself prefer "old school" selling out, shall we talk Mr. Roboto?

Hank Rollins for president!

 

[Storm Raven]

I don't know how valid an example Games Workshop is, since they're exclusively into war games. They have made some poor financial decisions though, like their unsuccessful attempt to bully online retailers out of the equation and force their customers to buy direct from them, paying their grotesquely inflated price.

Still, can't deny that they're making money.

Plus, you can't really hold them up as model for what has been suggested in this thread as a "good" way to run a company (not that anyone has). Their product line seems to consist of a few core games with numerous expansions and add-ons for them, which is exactly what was being decried earlier.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Plus, you can't really hold them up as model for what has been suggested in this thread as a "good" way to run a company (not that anyone has). Their product line seems to consist of a few core games with numerous expansions and add-ons for them, which is exactly what was being decried earlier.

Their product line is miniatures.

Oh, and a few games which give people other reasons to go in their shops and look at the miniatures, but those don't make money.

 

[tx7321]

Storm Raven, I would consider TLG doing well for a small team compared to other ventures...hell, they can afford to pay for Gary (who I'm sure ain't cheap). Of course its all relative, I see being able to feed yourself and pay your bills and live in mild comfort, while creating something you love to be a success....others don't. I don't have the numbers though, The Trolls could be doing far better or far worse then we assume (and I doubt even Treebore knows).

MerricB: "In other words, they diversify, as I said. They make many different games.
(I'll also note that the market for board games is different from the market for RPGs)."

I don't dispute this. The link I was referring to was affirming this (that they are 2 seperate markets). It is an interesting question though, what would have happened if Gygax had ended up with the majority of shares of TSR and had kept control. And lets say he kept the 2 core rule books and focused on developing other FRPGs that focused on new themes like CoC, Top Secret etc. That would be following more of a game board model (keeping the same game and adding new games). This is different then changing the core game every 5 years or so to sell new rule books (like 3.5) while not adding new game systems.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Nobody can sell out. Only survive. If D&D had stayed the way it was way back in the day it would no longer exist as being as popular as it is today. When something cannot adapt it dies. When something needs to survive it adapts and becomes more of what its environment demands of it.
Currently D&D 3.5 is the king of the hill and all other past editions are obsolete and inferior, because thats what the market research and the current fan base said. AS soon as the market research and the fan base demands that 3.5 in inferior we will have a 4e. No sooner or later, but at the time 3.5 needs to adapt.
Sure there will be some 3.5 throw backs (im going to be one of them, aside from 4e being completly compatible with the current game and FR books), but for the most part, most will embrace 4e like they did 3e and this will start all over again and then 4e will become obsolete and needing to evolve into 5e.

But its as simple as this. THE TRUEST VERSION OF THE GAME IS THE ONE BEING PUBLISHED WITH NEW OFFICIAL PRODUCTS, BE IT THE CURRENT 3.5 OR THE FUTURE 4E!

 

[MerricB]

I don't dispute this. The link I was referring to was affirming this (that they are 2 seperate markets). It is an interesting question though, what would have happened if Gygax had ended up with the majority of shares of TSR and had kept control. And lets say he kept the 2 core rule books and focused on developing other FRPGs that focused on new themes like CoC, Top Secret etc. That would be following more of a game board model (keeping the same game and adding new games). This is different then changing the core game every 5 years or so to sell new rule books (like 3.5) while not adding new game systems.

If you can find a copy of The Dragon #28, have a look at the interview with Gary about AD&D; this is just before the DMG came out. At the time he's looking at AD&D being basically the three core books, Deities & Demigods, plus possibly a couple of monster manuals, with more support coming through articles in The Dragon. Adventure modules aren't mentioned, but we can assume that they'd be coming...

Incidentally, how many of those games (boot hill, gamma world, top secret, etc.) got second (revised) editions while Gary was at TSR?

Cheers!

 

[Psion]

Oh, and a few games which give people other reasons to go in their shops and look at the miniatures, but those don't make money.

As much as the minis emphasis annoys me, I can't feel too bad that it is acting as a means of keeping the line viable.

 

[Storm Raven]

Storm Raven, I would consider TLG doing well for a small team compared to other ventures

Compared to other ventures, no rpgaming company other than perhaps WotC is doing well.

 

[thedungeondelver]

As much as the minis emphasis annoys me, I can't feel too bad that it is acting as a means of keeping the line viable.

If it was the minis "keeping the line viable" then the line is already doomed. The name would soldier on, in some capacity, but D&D as an RPG would die.

(And I don't believe that is what's keeping the line viable.)