Some crunch from Rich Baker

[cthulhus_pinky]

I think that one thing that is missing from the discussion is how turning is handled. It is part of the Channel Divinity class ability the you will be able to add a second power to it at first level without taking a feat. The DDXP character had Turn Undead and Divine Forture (without taking the feat) and only one of them could be used/encounter. I find that this really reduces the impact of having to take it, on top of that, its power has been quite reduced.

For those who want it out, IMO, it won't be hard to have the cleric pick a second Channel power in exchange for Turn Undead. This is what I would do if I was running an evil campaign, or was in world where it didn't make sense. Really, this is a very easy house rule to implement.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I like Turn Undead in 4e. Clerics channel power from the gods (astral beings), and so are able to tap into astral power (radiant energy) to damage undead. Makes sense to me.

It seems like undead in 4E are to some extent souls that didn't pass on into the astral. They're abominations in the eyes of the gods, particularly the god of the dead. And I don't think 4E has a god of UNdead. All the gods hate undead, and whether they're god or evil doesn't matter--astral power/radiant energy, no matter what the source, simply hurts undead.

I like this better. No more controlling/rebuking, positive/negative foo. It's all godpower, and it all fries deaders.

 

[Scipio202]

Since we're talking about balance (and how making Turn Undead not the default power would affect balance), I wonder if the monster creation guidelines include any adjustment for Undead to account for their vulnerability to turning. If they don't, or if its small, then getting rid of turning shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[Stalker0]

Since we're talking about balance (and how making Turn Undead not the default power would affect balance), I wonder if the monster creation guidelines include any adjustment for Undead to account for their vulnerability to turning. If they don't, or if its small, then getting rid of turning shouldn't be that big of a deal.

From what I saw in the playtest, clerics and paladins are far better at dealing with undead then other classes. Paladins can do +5 damage every swing, and cleric turning is very powerful. I don't know if the system will mechanical note this, but as a general rule DMs should realize undead encounters will be a bit easier with a paladin and a cleric in the group.

 

[Just Another User]

I wonder how easy it would be to turn this around, so that by default all clerics get their deity specific power, but they can spend a feat on it to turn undead?

That sounds rather appealing to me.

Yeah, a thing I never liked of 3e was why a fire god should have any powers over the undead? (beside the ability to burn them to a crisp).
To not mention tihngs like, I dunno a god of wealth and trade.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I was about to suggest the same thing, actually, for those who prefer it. One of the easiest house rules I can think of.

Rock on.

I love turning undead, and IMO it's a natural fit for gods like Pelor, the Raven Queen, Bahamut, and so on. But IMO gods like Corellon, Avandra, or Gruumsh don't care as much about fighting the scourge of the undead and would probably focus on other things. Maybe the fluff text for Turn Undead will bring me 'round, but I'm glad it sounds like it'll be an easy "fix" if I want to go that route.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Here he suggests Swordmage's primary stats will be INT and STR (not surprising).

I'm kinda sorta hoping that the third primary stat for Swordmages will be Dex. That way, Eladrin will make even better Swordmages. But it probably will be Con.

 

[Derren]

I'm kinda sorta hoping that the third primary stat for Swordmages will be Dex. That way, Eladrin will make even better Swordmages. But it probably will be Con.

Dex and Into go to the same save, so it would make sense for them to get Cha or Wis to cover all defenses.

 

[keterys]

I don't think they're necessarily trying to cover all three saves. Paladins use both Wisdom and Charisma, for instance.

 

[chitzk0i]

Not all campaigns will use the default cosmology and/or gods.

Tough cookies. You'll also have to change something else.

D&D is not Fantasy Toolkit #3.