Some crunch from Rich Baker

[Fiendish Dire Weasel]

Another "boo" for innate Turn Undead and no innate deity-related ability

 

[TheSleepyKing]

Interestingly an earlier post by Rich Baker in the same forum indicated that the various D&D worlds all occupied the same universe (much as in 2E) and that you could cross worlds via either the Shadowfell or through Sigil (which should make PS fans happy).

Quote, from Gleemax (when talking about the Shadowfell and Feywild)

They're not really opposites. They're sort of at "right angles" to each other and to the world itself. Making a piece of the world more shadowy doesn't necessarily make it more fey, and vice versa.

They do share the property of both being "echo worlds," in which the general topography of the world is duplicated.

While we haven't said so explicitly, I think that you can get from Toril's Shadowfell to Oerth's Shadowfell *somehow*. But you're probably better off to go to Sigil and find a door leading to the world you want.

 

[Gloombunny]

Rock on.

I love turning undead, and IMO it's a natural fit for gods like Pelor, the Raven Queen, Bahamut, and so on. But IMO gods like Corellon, Avandra, or Gruumsh don't care as much about fighting the scourge of the undead and would probably focus on other things. Maybe the fluff text for Turn Undead will bring me 'round, but I'm glad it sounds like it'll be an easy "fix" if I want to go that route.

I dunno, I really can't see the Raven Queen granting radiance-based powers... I'm disappointed that they didn't go further with the radiance thing, actually. Changing turn undead to a radiant-type damage spell that can be used on anyone but has extra effects on undead would've been neat, and then they could've had something like rebuke as an alternative, dealing necrotic damage to living things and affecting undead in some interesting way.

I'm disappointed that Clerics have to spend feat(s) to get powers specific to their deity.

It sort of makes sense, though - otherwise you'd have to do extra design work every time you want to use a cleric of a god that hasn't been statted out already. This way you can use a cleric of Minor Deity #7 without having to design and balance a new power.

Except they could've achieved that same goal by making deity-specific powers something you can swap in for free by giving up some generic power. That would've been better.

Actually, I think the opposite is happening. In previous editions, D&D hewed pretty closely to Tolkienesque fantasy.

It so did not. There was never anything Tolkienesque about D&D except a few races. The real inspiration for D&D has always been sword-and-sorcery. You're right about D&D becoming more expansible and flexible, though!

 

[AtomicPope]

I think the anti-turning bias is unfounded. In previous editions clerics didn't have an alternative, now they do - Divine Fortune. In 3e they HAD to spend a feat just to qualify for an alternative. In 4e they come with an alternative - Divine Fortune. Unlike 3e you don't have to spend a feat just to have an alternative to turning. In fact, all information suggests that you could play an "Out of the Box" cleric in 4e and never, ever turn a single undead in 30 levels.

 

[AtomicPope]

It so did not. There was never anything Tolkienesque about D&D except a few races. The real inspiration for D&D has always been sword-and-sorcery. You're right about D&D becoming more expansible and flexible, though!

In some ways I agree but I have to look beyond the PC races and see the core of D&D:
1) Artifacts of Evil - Cursed artifacts were prevalent throughout D&D as a major world shaking event, just like LOTR
2) The Quest to Kill the Dragon and plunder his Gold - if you read the Hobbit, everything that happens in that book is at the core of any D&D adventure
3) The World Under the Mountains - Tolkien was the first modern fantasy author to create a dungeonscape, a subterranean world full of riches, monsters, traps, and dangers. Also at the core of D&D.


Granted, that's not to say that Vance didn't contribute to D&D. He is responsible for providing the basis of the worst magic system of any roleplaying game to date

 

[Gloombunny]

Granted, that's not to say that Vance didn't contribute to D&D. He is responsible for providing the basis of the worst magic system of any roleplaying game to date

Don't blame the crappy magic system on Vance! Gygax's magic system is way different than anything seen in any Vance story, and besides, Vance never intended it to be used for games. (It works a lot better in stories, where a single author chooses both the spells prepared and the challenges faced so that they fit together in interesting ways.) Not to mention that only a couple of Dying Earth stories even bother to mention spell memorization at all.

It's true that The Hobbit is a bigger D&D influence than Lord of the Rings, though.

 

[DonAdam]

Good: all gods turn undead
Bad: all clerics turn undead

I'm happy that they've introduced a little complexity into the cosmos. It's not: good=positive=life vs. bad=negative=death. This allows interplanar conflicts (i.e., differences between fiends and gods). I'm also happy there's no god of undeath: that's Orcus's job! It allows undead to be seen as unnatural by the vast majority of the campaign world, and goes hand in hand with the idea that evil gods need worshippers.

I, for one, can't wait for my players to have to protect the good undead from the crusading paladin of Bane.

But for most campaigns, I think deity powers should be default. But I guess the drive for making things more generic makes some sense.

How long until someone puts out a list of deity-specific feats for the Book of the Righteous?

 

[Ipissimus]

Methinks that this will be addressed by the Divine Power sourcebook when it comes out.

After all, look at the way they're doing Turn Undead. You can already technically replace Turn Undead by gaining a Channeling feat, why not simplify the whole process by swapping out the class feature?

Of course, the problem is that you have to balance that feature against Turn Undead. I can see a cleric, particularly from Eberron, getting Turn Abberation but Turn Humaniod is too powerful. Some sort of charm effect would be better (and more consistant with some backgrounds).

 

[Incenjucar]

Would have been so much cleaner if they could summon a damaging aura with radiance as one of the options.

 

[Irda Ranger]

What? Yes, yes it is. That's always been the primary purpose of D&D.

...What the hell? Can people actually believe that?

Yes. There is no such thing as a generic fantasy toolkit, because there's no such thing as generic fantasy. Each fantasy is unique to itself, including D&D. It certainly is "inspired by" a lot of sources, but that doesn't mean it's anything other than D&D.

That said, the comment you were replying to was out of line. Changing the list of gods/cosmology should be pretty easy.