Some odd imbalances in Warlock invocations

[Falling Icicle]

There seems to be some imbalances in Warlock invocations. For example, noxious blast is a greater (6th) invocation, and can nauseate its victim for 1 minute (10 rounds). A nauseated creature can take only a single move action each turn, and can't attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. That is a significant hinderance that nearly disables an opponent.

Now, let's compare this to another greater eldritch essence invocation. Hindering Blast, in Complete Mage, only slows its target for 1 round. A Slowed creature can take only a single standard or move action each turn and suffers a -1 penalty to attack rolls, saves and reflex saves. Obviously, being slowed is nowhere near as bad as being nauseated. And not only that, the slow effect of hindering blast lasts only 1 round, compared to the 10 round duration of noxious blast. So why does noxious blast have not only a far superior debilitating effect, but also 10 times the duration of hindering blast?

Also, hindering blast has a level equivalent of 4th, even though invocations with such a level equivalent are supposed to be lesser invocations, according to the Warlock class description.

"A least invocation has a level equivalent of 1st or 2nd; a lesser, 3rd or 4th; a greater, 5th or 6th; and a dark invocation has a level equivalent of 6th or higher (maximum 9th)." Complete Arcane, p. 8

This had me thinking that perhaps putting hindering blast at the greater grade was an accident, but looking over the invocations in both books, I've noticed several invocations which are also in error as to their level equivalent vs. their grade. Bewitching blast is also a greater eldritch essence invocation, despite its 4th level equivalent. Word of Changing is a dark invocation, despite it's 5th level equivalent. Caustic mire is a greater invocation despite its 4th level equivalent.

So not only are some of these invocation's effects too weak for their grade, but this is often obvious just by looking at their level equivalent.

 

[frankthedm]

Are there not many more things utterly immune to being nauseated than slowed?

What saves are involved? Nausea sound like a fort save to which few few things will fail against. Will saves at least nail brutes semi decently.

Slow will dispell the haste Buff won't it?.

The caster levels don't always match up to the Invocation potency. Sometimes the caster level is lower to match another effect, while the invocation potecy is great to account for the value of having it over and over and over.

 

[Nifft]

More things resist nausea than resist slow, I think. (Undead, for one major group.)
However, nausea for 1 minute may indeed be too strong for its grade.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Falling Icicle]

Are there not many more things utterly immune to being nauseated than slowed?

Yes, only living creatures can be nauseated, so undead and constructs are immune. However, this weakness is more than made up for by the fact that nausea is so much more debilitating than slow.

What saves are involved? Nausea sound like a fort save to which few few things will fail against. Will saves at least nail brutes semi decently.

Nausea is resisted with a Fort save. However, that does not make it an inferior power by any means. Sure, some creatures will more easily resist it than they would a will save, but the opposite is also true. Noxious blast is particularly good at screwing over arcane casters and rogues, for example.

Slow will dispell the haste Buff won't it?.

Yes, but the ability to dispel one spell is hardly good enough to make up for being a much weaker effect and having 1/10th the duration.

The caster levels don't always match up to the Invocation potency. Sometimes the caster level is lower to match another effect, while the invocation potecy is great to account for the value of having it over and over and over.

True, but some of these invocations are just too weak for their grade, not because of their level equivalent, but because of what they do compared to other invocations of their grade.

 

[Stormrunner]

The one which has always puzzled me is Warlock's Call. Essentially this is like sending a magical, one-way phone call to someone. So why did the designers consider it so powerful that they not only made it a Greater invocation, but gave the recipient the ability to "zap" the warlock for damage in response? I'm guessing someone during playtesting managed to find a way to Horribly Abuse this ability, but how?
Mind you, I've often wished for the "zap" ability myself when receiving salepitch calls at inconvenient times ...

 

[irdeggman]

Not all spells of the same level are equal either.

Invisibility anyone?

 

[Evilhalfling]

I don't mind some of the spells being weak for their category - better safe than sorry in terms of powers that are usable at will. Invisibility would be grossly over powered as a least invocation.
now noxious blast - its got to be a misprint of some sort. Every other power that stops the target form acting has a one round duration.

Leasser- blinding(1), +2d6 flames (1-4), Cold -4dex 10 minutes.
Greater- confusion(1), Noxious(10???) Repelling(knockdown), Slow(1), Acid (no SR, no Sv+2d6)
Dark - Utterdark , Binding Blast (1)

Okay If I were rating the severity of conditions (each lasting one round)
Sickened (1 minute), Shaken (1 minute)
Blind, slow
Confused, nauseous
Stunned, level loss (1 hour)
yep. im changing it.

 

[Falling Icicle]

The one which has always puzzled me is Warlock's Call. Essentially this is like sending a magical, one-way phone call to someone. So why did the designers consider it so powerful that they not only made it a Greater invocation, but gave the recipient the ability to "zap" the warlock for damage in response? I'm guessing someone during playtesting managed to find a way to Horribly Abuse this ability, but how?
Mind you, I've often wished for the "zap" ability myself when receiving salepitch calls at inconvenient times ...

Well, imagine if someone could endlessly speak into your mind, and you could do nothing to shut them up. That's why they put the "zap" option on warlock's call.

 

[SelcSilverhand]

Well, imagine if someone could endlessly speak into your mind, and you could do nothing to shut them up. That's why they put the "zap" option on warlock's call.

I can see that, slap on a ring of sustenance and spend all day and night bugging an enemy caster so they don't get any rest and can't get their spells back (Or just disturb their rest constantly, making them miserable).