Sorceor spellselection
- Thread starter Hescamar
- Start date
Zhure
First Post
I think the key to spell selection is map your spells out for at least a few levels.
- Don't take spells that will be superseded by higher level versions (Teleport vs Teleport without Error; Invisibility vs Improved Invisibility; Alter Self vs Polymorph Self). You can ignore this if you absolutely want multiple versions of the same spell, so you can tailor which level to use based on circumstance, sort of like a poor man's Heighten.
- Don't take spells that will be superseded by higher level situations. (Sleep has a HD limit that quickly passes). You can ignore this rule if you have find a good non-combat use for it (Sleep can knock out low level guards and shopkeepers all the way out to 20th).
- Don't take a lot of combat spells. You only need one every other level or so since you can cast on the fly. Ignore this if you're a theme sorcerer and want lots of Summon Monster spells, or lots of Illusions. Very often this leads to redundant spells, which is a problem as mentioned above.
- Don't take all spells of the same flavor. Having every fire spell makes for a really cool concept, but when the monster immune to fire eats the cleric, the fighter and the rogue, a fella has to think about his future. You can ignore this if you take Energy Substitution, especially if you take it two or three times.
- Don't let anyone tell you what's a stupid spell; that's all subjective. I'm running a Sorcerer with a Sleep spell. For low levels it's a life saver and it'll have the occasional high-level use. It's important to know when you're wasting a spell for flavor or you'll wind up all flavor and no fire.
Skills are important, too. I recommend a few skill points spent on Celestial or Infernal, to help issue commands to summoned monsters if you plan on summoning a lot. Bluff, Sense Motive and similar CHA skills are expensive to get because they're cross-class, but you'll get a lot of mileage out of them because they're CHA-based.
Hope that helps,
Greg
- Don't take spells that will be superseded by higher level versions (Teleport vs Teleport without Error; Invisibility vs Improved Invisibility; Alter Self vs Polymorph Self). You can ignore this if you absolutely want multiple versions of the same spell, so you can tailor which level to use based on circumstance, sort of like a poor man's Heighten.
- Don't take spells that will be superseded by higher level situations. (Sleep has a HD limit that quickly passes). You can ignore this rule if you have find a good non-combat use for it (Sleep can knock out low level guards and shopkeepers all the way out to 20th).
- Don't take a lot of combat spells. You only need one every other level or so since you can cast on the fly. Ignore this if you're a theme sorcerer and want lots of Summon Monster spells, or lots of Illusions. Very often this leads to redundant spells, which is a problem as mentioned above.
- Don't take all spells of the same flavor. Having every fire spell makes for a really cool concept, but when the monster immune to fire eats the cleric, the fighter and the rogue, a fella has to think about his future. You can ignore this if you take Energy Substitution, especially if you take it two or three times.
- Don't let anyone tell you what's a stupid spell; that's all subjective. I'm running a Sorcerer with a Sleep spell. For low levels it's a life saver and it'll have the occasional high-level use. It's important to know when you're wasting a spell for flavor or you'll wind up all flavor and no fire.
Skills are important, too. I recommend a few skill points spent on Celestial or Infernal, to help issue commands to summoned monsters if you plan on summoning a lot. Bluff, Sense Motive and similar CHA skills are expensive to get because they're cross-class, but you'll get a lot of mileage out of them because they're CHA-based.
Hope that helps,
Greg
Thanee said:
Welp, I played a sorceror to 11th in one of our campaigns. And discovered if Melf's can be quite useful. My normal combat against large group with a spell casters went like this.
Round 1:
Casts haste
Casts Improved invisibility
Round 2:
Cast Melf's acid arrow at spell caster
Cast Melf's acid arrow at spell caster
Round 3:
Cast Melf's acid arrow at spell caster
Cast Melf's acid arrow at spell caster
Round 4:
Starts either casting magic missile or lightning bolt to assist party... always trying to get that spell caster in the effect if possible twice per round.
I don't know about you but most spell casters have a problem with DC 10 + 8d4 concentration checks.
Just my random thoughts,
Roland Delacroix
First Post
Zhure has some great advice, almost the Commandments of being a sorcerer. One thing you might want to see if your DM allows is upgrading your spells. There was an option in some dragon magazine, basically it lets you swap up lower spells for better versions when you learn the slot, if the new one reffers to the old spell. For example if you knew Invisibility, a second level spell, when your sorcerer hit 8th level and got a 4th level spell slot you could choose Improved Invisibility, and replace Invisibility with a new 2nd level spell. You can do this with any spell that reffers to an earlier version, Hold Monster is a usefull one, it says "As Hold Person."
For spells, Limited Wish is a must to get your available spells up. You might alsowant to look at Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation, prefferably the greater versions. These also greatly increase your effective spell use.
Someone mentioned Maximize spell, but i would say stay away from Maximize Spell. Empower spell is often just as good, adding 1/2 again damage for one spell level lesser. By that i mean an Empowered 4th level spell costs the same slot as a Maximized 3rd level spell, a 6th level slot for both, but the Empowered 4th level will have higher damage and a higher DC most of the time. Plus, you can use Empower 2, or even 3 times for mega damage. Applying both would be nice, but sorcerers don't have the feats to throw away on both.
Spell Penetration, well i've heard its one of the best feats from players who play high level. We've never played the levels where it would be usefull, so i'm not sure. I'd wait till you get to those levels and see how many things are resisting your spells.
For spells, Limited Wish is a must to get your available spells up. You might alsowant to look at Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation, prefferably the greater versions. These also greatly increase your effective spell use.
Someone mentioned Maximize spell, but i would say stay away from Maximize Spell. Empower spell is often just as good, adding 1/2 again damage for one spell level lesser. By that i mean an Empowered 4th level spell costs the same slot as a Maximized 3rd level spell, a 6th level slot for both, but the Empowered 4th level will have higher damage and a higher DC most of the time. Plus, you can use Empower 2, or even 3 times for mega damage. Applying both would be nice, but sorcerers don't have the feats to throw away on both.
Spell Penetration, well i've heard its one of the best feats from players who play high level. We've never played the levels where it would be usefull, so i'm not sure. I'd wait till you get to those levels and see how many things are resisting your spells.
spells & feats
I don't know about you but I seem to like the spell Battering Ram, its a utility spell to open doors or move objects, but also does dammage and can tip over persons (STR25 bullrush).
But Magic Missile is a must have for a Sorcerer at higher lvls (at lvl 7 a must). At lower lvl I got sweeter buff spells and utility spells.
Alter Self is a very powerfull spell, look very close at the discription and see what you can do with it, and its much cheaper then polymorph and often just as good.
A feats I think is a must have is Improved Initiative and Extend Spell, thoes buff spells like mage armor will last the compleet day
Laiyna
I don't know about you but I seem to like the spell Battering Ram, its a utility spell to open doors or move objects, but also does dammage and can tip over persons (STR25 bullrush).
But Magic Missile is a must have for a Sorcerer at higher lvls (at lvl 7 a must). At lower lvl I got sweeter buff spells and utility spells.
Alter Self is a very powerfull spell, look very close at the discription and see what you can do with it, and its much cheaper then polymorph and often just as good.
A feats I think is a must have is Improved Initiative and Extend Spell, thoes buff spells like mage armor will last the compleet day
Laiyna
Thanee
First Post
Macbrea said:
Ok, let's assume, that the damage adds up (it's not so clear, but I think it sounds reasonable).
The average DC then is 20+spell level (10+1/2 continuous damage+spell level).
An 11th level spellcaster (assuming the same level) would beat this DC easily! And considering you spent a full three rounds on doing this, it surely does not sound like an efficient tactic to me, altho I must admit, that it sounds like a lot of fun (and that's really more important)!
Bye
Thanee
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Roland Delacroix said:
It depends on your spell selection.
It is a good idea if you are really depending on ramming spells down your opponents' throat. That monster that resists 50% of the time only resists 40% of time with Spell Penetration, a net improvement of 20% in your effectiveness.
OTOH, sometimes it is best just to switch tactics: buff up your allies and let them deal with the nasties. That works pretty well for Wizards, but a Sorceror is not necessarily going to have the right spells to pull it off.
Of course that is a good reason to have summon spells. It may not be the optimal choice, but there is always a monster you can summon that will help a little.
I have to disagree with fly. While a great spell, its better served by using scrolls/potions. You get so few 3rd level spells that fly probably isn't a good pick (though making the whole party fly has its uses).
Generally speaking, ask yourself "Do I want to cast this spell over and over again?" If the answer is no, then consider how critical the spell is, if it can be cast on other people, and if it can be replicated easily with potions and the like (availablity could vary with campaign).
As far as feats, Arcane Prep can be used to great effect. My DM had a sorceror that was Imp Invisible with this, illusions and silent spells. Sorcerors have so many spells of a given level that losing them to metamagic feats is hardly noticable vs wizards who have very few spells of the highest levels. Giving up one of your 2 7th level spells for a quickend haste as a wizard is a hard choice. Losing 1 of 4 7th level castings of your one 7th level spell as a sorceror, however is pretty painless.
Generally speaking, ask yourself "Do I want to cast this spell over and over again?" If the answer is no, then consider how critical the spell is, if it can be cast on other people, and if it can be replicated easily with potions and the like (availablity could vary with campaign).
As far as feats, Arcane Prep can be used to great effect. My DM had a sorceror that was Imp Invisible with this, illusions and silent spells. Sorcerors have so many spells of a given level that losing them to metamagic feats is hardly noticable vs wizards who have very few spells of the highest levels. Giving up one of your 2 7th level spells for a quickend haste as a wizard is a hard choice. Losing 1 of 4 7th level castings of your one 7th level spell as a sorceror, however is pretty painless.
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